How old an instrument can be called "vintage"?

[Chistopher]

Re: How old an instrument can be called "vintage"?

Funny, when I think "vintage" Martin, I think pre-war. A Martin from the early 60s might be technically vintage, but there is a whole variety of even more vintage-er models out there.

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: How old an instrument can be called "vintage"?

As I have already patiently said, it matters not whether they were the cream of the crop or not.....it matters not if people are not converting them back. These are all irrelevancies.

People like them for what they are - a great p90 guitar that sound just as good as any other p90 goldtop in the lineup (the important part that you are simply unable to comprehend) - and with a little help from Mojoaxe they can be a topwrap too.

This comment below from Lew is what I was referring to. He is claiming that quality level is associated with being vintage and to me it is not a make or break factor, it could be tied in but age certainly is.

Yes they may sound great but that year is not "better" due to their design flaws. They cannot be accurately intonated which directly effects tone, for me and just about every guitar player on the planet that is a necessity for an instrument to be considered top shelf. Even back then it was certainly important.

Great tone is just that, most of us if blindfolded would have a hard time determining a new custom shop guitar with quality replica pickups and harness from the real thing. If it sounds good it is good regardless of age. Tone is not the sole deciding factor to being vintage or quality. Some of those old instruments are dogs, just like some of the best new guitars are dogs. Age and tone can be linked but it's not black and white. The 50's are better attitude, or whatever other time frame people want to attach is just romanticizing.

All I'm saying is that tone and quality while important do not supersede age in the application of the vintage designation.

The vintage market started in the 70’s because Gibson and Fender were making a lot of junk.

To me, a vintage guitar is not just old...it’s better.

So to me, a vintage guitar would be from 1965 or before.

A 1974 Strat that weighs a ton and has weak sounding pickups will never be a vintage guitar to me because those were the Strats that made me want to find a good one from the 50’s or first half of the 60’s.

 

[Securb]

Re: How old an instrument can be called "vintage"?

The vintage market started in the 70’s because Gibson and Fender were making a lot of junk.

The used market for Les Pauls started to heat up in the mid-sixties when Gibson halted production on them and Keef along with other artists made them sought after again. The high prices on the secondary market (higher than the original MRPs) is what brought the guitar back in '68. I do not think that trend continued in the 70's because Norlin and CBS came into play. The trend predates anything that was going on in the 70's. It is/was because players wanted to play the vintages Clapton, Page, Beck and Richards were playing. In the cases of Clapton, Page, Beck and Richards they wanted to play the guitars blues men like Freddie King were playing in the 50s.

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: How old an instrument can be called "vintage"?

That's right.

The CBS buy out date doesn't have much to with Gibson quality, they have their own time line and some Norlin guitars are great despite what you read. 50 year old LP's are no doubt vintage, and for 68 going into 69 where nearly burst spec'd. Early 90's CS historic's are knocking on the right age and are for sure great sounding and playing guitars.