HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

So has anyone posted a 59/Custom clip yet? Can't seem to find one through all the pages! Also would like to hear it compared to the Duncan 78 and EVH Frankenstein pup~ If I had the cash I would do it. Anyone?

Wouldn't really matter if someone posts a clip since it will not sound the same when you did it due to each person having their own tone, not to mention how rare it is to find two people with the exact same guitar, amp, and everything-else setup.
Even then, because all players are different, the sound you heard from their recording would not be the same as what you'd get yourself.




Regarding resonant peaks flattening each other out - if you have one pickup whose EQ curve is, theoretically, +3dB@250Hz, +5dB@1.2kHz, and +3dB@3kHz and another whose EQ curve is +5dB@250Hz, +3dB@1.2kHz, and +4dB@3kHz, the hybrid should come out as +4dB@250Hz, +4dB@1.2kHz, and +3.5dB@3kHz.

Because the two coils and the magnet work together to achieve that resonant peak, and because Duncans use matched coils, each coil in the first example above would read +1.5dB@250Hz, +2.5dB@1.2kHz, and +1.5dB@3kHz. Combining that coil with a coil which has an "inverse" bass/mid compared to that coil will essentially cancel each other out - 1.5db + 2.5dB = 4dB.

If you have one pickup with scooped mids (or rather more bass and highs than mids, since you can't really make a pickup with a frequency cut) and another with an equal mid-hump at the same frequency and reduced bass and treble, you're going to make a flat-response hybrid. Granted it may be hot, but it won't have a definable curve like e 59, Custom, JB, etc.

Of course this also assumes both pickups have the same magnet to start with.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

^^^But it doesn't really work like that. I mean, it does to an extent, but there is also a stereo or chorus type effect of the mismatched coils, which is how you get the more pronounced harmonics you hear, and why it just sounds bigger and more broad.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

The Custom/59 is a subtle "3D" sound because they are close in resonant peak. But you have two coils with slightly different RP's and one has nearly twice the resistance, reading two slightly different parts of the strings. Keep in mind, WHERE you put the pickup is critical to the harmonic content of what the pickup reads. Fender puts their humbuckers too close to the bridge on their HSS and HH models, which creates funky dissonant harmonics. Move it up just a hair and amazingly, you have a richer-sound with a better fundamental. I played with this for a while and that's why I decided to hard-mount because it was easier to move the pickup around.

One of the problems with being purely "calculation" based, is that you aren't considering SOUND, just numbers. I think Orpheo has some good points but it comes off kind of harsh considering this isn't "important critical" stuff in the big picture. We're having FUN here! We're experimenting with TONE, not trying to calculate Earth-to-Moon trajectories. Lighten up!

 

[dr. ad]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

Actually, orpheo was replying to one person in particular, it wasn't a general blanket statement. I really don't think he was try to insult anyone either. fourdogslong - the person he was replying to - didn't seem to take offense, why are you?

probably because of this:

oh boy, where should I begin to de-bunk the wrong ideas you seem to have?

i don't want to further de-rail the thread, and i'm not sure if there's a language barrier here, but i read this as oprheo having thrown a couple of hybrids together and declaring himself an expert.

in my experince a successful hybrid has nothing to do with matching the resonant peak and inductance; look at all the dimarzio dual resonance pickups, and the patent information.

and the custom sounds nothing like a PAF; it's 14K of AWG43 with a ceramic magnet. if it did, the 59/custom hybrid would sound terrible.

try making a hybrid out of an A2P and a 59; on paper it works, but in practice it doesn't.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I think some folks making the Custom/59 hybrid are going for the "Van Halen average". Might be an interesting idea to try the "IM1/78" hybrid for that. Hotter "PAF" and slightly milder "Custom" winds might be the ticket, I dunno.

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

@ fourdogslong - The SH5, SH11, and SH14 are the same pickup just with a different magnet. The Custom (SH5) was the first and it uses a ceramic magnet. The Custom Custom (SH11) uses an Alnico 2. The Custom 5 (SH14) uses an Alnico 5 magnet. The magnet matters a lot in the frequencies and response of the pickup, made very evident by the fact that there are 3 products based on this fact.

The hybrid at the start of this thread was an SH11, but it could have been any of the Custom pickups. The 59 uses an Alnico 5 magnet, so if you took a SH14 and 59 and combined them you would get two hybrids, both based on an Alnico 5. They won't be exactly the same, for a few reasons, but you wouldn't have to worry about what magnet was in which pickup.

Further experimentation involves swapping different magnets. A favourite of a few seems to be an Alnico 8.

Personally, I've combined a TB14 and TB59, which are just the wider-spaced versions of the Seymour Duncan humbuckers (trembuckers), and I really like one but not the other. For whatever reason, whether it just happens to be the mix of the two coils, or something else, I only like the one. I've tried it in both the bridge and neck and it's great, where the other I don't like in either position in a few guitars I've tried.

If you combined an SH11 or SH5 with a 59 you'd have a choice as to what magnet to put in what hybrid.

You mentioned the SH14 was bright to you. It's not overly bright, but may seem like that in some guitars. Because of the Alnico 5, and the wind I would guess, it has scooped mids and big lows and highs. But, in the guitars I've tried I haven't found it too bright. Generally it has a tighter sound, especially compared to an SH11. Personally, I've like the SH11 more often than the SH14. I did like the SH14 in the neck of one guitar though.

If you're going off of the sound examples on the SD site, remember, they're all taken from a recording of the same guitar on the same equipment with the same settings, and so certain pickups may not sound very good, taken strictly in that context.

If you've used a JB, for instance, and you really know what that sounds like, listen to the JB clips and try to use that as a reference when listening to the other pickup clips. In that way you will get more of a comparison of frequencies, attack, etc., instead of expecting the pickup to sound like what's in the clip. If a pickup sounds bright in those clips, it may just be that it will tend to enhance the upper range, and/or just happens to bring out some frequencies in the guitar used that don't sound particularly pleasing.

Maybe you already know that, but I really didn't realize that myself when I first started really getting into pickup swapping and tone chasing.

I know I didn't particularly care for a few pickups from the sound clips, but after trying just about all of them, there are some that I thought I'd really like that weren't very good in my guitars and/or setup. Others surprised me in a good way.

Back on the hybrid tracks, check out some threads in the forums about different types of hybrids and you'll find all sorts of experimenting has gone on.


Success to one is failure to another. But, a hybrid that's mentioned often (maybe it's just Ian, not sure, he does post a lot about it ), is the C8/59, which is the Custom/59 hybrid with the Alnico 8. It's why I mentioned it earlier. The Alnico 8 gets mentioned a lot even as a replacement for non-hybrids.

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.
The comparaison trick is a good one, I was already trying to remember the JB tone and keep that as a starting point when listening to the SD clips which, if I recall correctly were made with a Les Paul, which is sort of what my guitar will be.
I'm a soundman and even though I listened to thousands of "clips" A/Bing stuff in my life, it's still kindda hard to compare those clips and trying to compared them all even if I used 3 of them already.

Listening to the Bridge Clean clip of the SH14, I thought it sounded really thin and unpleasant but on the Dirty Bridge clip, it sounds huge, but this is tricky because the riff is played slower than the other clips.

I can't tell right now what I want exactly because I need to listen to my "soon to be" guitar unplugged before I can tell what the pickup should "add" to my guitar's tone.

Keep discusing, it's really interesting.

 

[dvadneau]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I know we're getting off of the hybrid track here, but the SH13, SH14, and Phat Cat clips were done after the original recordings of the other pickups. So, the player is different and the equipment and/or settings used are different. The SH14 dirty clip does sound massive, but you can't directly compare that clip to the others, unfortunately. It's hard to set everything back up again if you use a different player from the original clips, especially if the guitar/equipment happened to be his and you are forced to use other equipment. Not sure if that's the case or not, but all of the constants from the other clips seem to have changed.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

The best hybrid I've made is a 490R (4.1 K)/Screamin' Demon (5.1K) with an A2. I use it as a neck pickup, but I can see VH chasers using it in the bridge. This is the pickup that made me think the 78 was maybe a hybrid, it sounds like the descriptions and the resistance figures are close. I suspect it's assymetrical 42 awg coils in the 78 though, like a PG, but the symmetry (or lack thereof) is what makes them similar.

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I know we're getting off of the hybrid track here, but the SH13, SH14, and Phat Cat clips were done after the original recordings of the other pickups. So, the player is different and the equipment and/or settings used are different. The SH14 dirty clip does sound massive, but you can't directly compare that clip to the others, unfortunately. It's hard to set everything back up again if you use a different player from the original clips, especially if the guitar/equipment happened to be his and you are forced to use other equipment. Not sure if that's the case or not, but all of the constants from the other clips seem to have changed.

That explains why the SH14 sounds so different in the samples, I wonder how different it is compared to the other customs in real life though...

thanks for the info

 

[IanBallard]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

The best hybrid I've made is a 490R (4.1 K)/Screamin' Demon (5.1K) with an A2. I use it as a neck pickup, but I can see VH chasers using it in the bridge. This is the pickup that made me think the 78 was maybe a hybrid, it sounds like the descriptions and the resistance figures are close. I suspect it's assymetrical 42 awg coils in the 78 though, like a PG, but the symmetry (or lack thereof) is what makes them similar.

Zhang said that his "hybrid" wind sounds almost the same as his "Brownbucker" so that might be a factor. As I said, if I were to order a CS pickup and was building a "Van Halen replica", I'd probably opt for an IM1/78 hybrid.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

That explains why the SH14 sounds so different in the samples, I wonder how different it is compared to the other customs in real life though...

thanks for the info

Yeah, the Custom 5 "clean" sample sounds terrible. Almost like an active pickup. Supposedly they used the same gear though. I believe it runs through was used on the sample home page.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

Those updated samples are terrible.

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

For a Custom/59 hybrid, can you replace the 59 with a seth lover or antiquity?
Does the fact that the seth lover isn't pot waxed causes proplems in a hybrid?

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

Not any more than it would in the stock Seth or Antiquity, but make sure you use the bridge pickup, the neck models are quite a bit underwound to use for this.

 

[ACE 4080]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

would it be a nice, well balanced combo if i had a 59/custom A2 in the bridge and just a regular 59 in the neck???? give me some thoughts

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I recently heard about Skatterbrane pickups which are some PAF type of pickup with unmatched winding.
Anybody has experience with them? Would they be better than a hybrid pickup?

 

[BachToRock]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

would it be a nice, well balanced combo if i had a 59/custom A2 in the bridge and just a regular 59 in the neck???? give me some thoughts

That combo is good... but a 59/Jazz Neck Hybrid is my favorite... sweeeeet!

The Phat Cat also works well in the neck... I wish they would come out with a Phat Cat Neck model about 5-10% underwound... the JAZZ CAT!

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

As a follow up of my own post.
I also heard about Throbak, which are apparantly excellent PAF repro, would you choose that over a hybrid pickup?

I don't really have the money to try everything, I want to make the right choice...

 

[fourdogslong]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I searched but couldn't find, is there any clip out there of the hybrid pickup?

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: HOW TO: Make a 59/Custom Hybrid

I did a search and could not found anyone that did a JB/59 hybrid?
I wonder if that would get me the LWAN tone in a kramer baretta? it has a old JBJ in it that came stock and i love it but want it to have a more PAF type vibe to it?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzq17F-b9AU