How to remove tone from Tele neck using a switch craft 3 way toggle?

[Backbeatdeano]

Hey guys, I wonder if anyone could help me?

I have a custom guitar which has standard Tele 2 pups/1 vol/1 tone, but a switch craft 3 way toggle.

The neck is sounding a bit dark so I would like to remove the tone from the neck, but leave it on the bridge (and middle).

does anyone know if this is possible, and how I would go about wiring it?

I don’t want to use push/pulls as the bridge will be too bright without the tone in the circuit, so I would have to push/pull every time I switch pickup, which is not very practical!

if anyone could help me out I would be very appreciative!!

here’s some photos of the current wiring -

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16dKFgkur7c2RuKbi_koBvNJ0yKvqrMrZ

Cheers!
Dean

 

[GuitarDoc]

Sure. Just run the hot wire from the neck pup directly to the 3-way toggle. Run the hot from the bridge pup to the tone pot and to the 3-way.

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Awesome thanks dude, I did suspect this might be a thing but my understanding of electronics is shocking () I’ll see if I can figure out how to re wire this myself, but I might be back to ask some more questions!

 

[GuitarDoc]

No problem. That's what we're here for.

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Hey GuitarDoc ! I just drew up a little rough diagram. Would you be able to take a look and see if it's right? Electronics are not my forte!! Not too sure if i've attached things to the right lugs on the pots, and if the tone control also needs a ground going somewhere too?

Cheers!

 

[eclecticsynergy]

You don't want to actually run your bridge pickup through the tone pot.
That would turn down the pickup's volume as you turn down the tone.

Instead, bridge pickup and tone pot both connect to the same lug on the switch.
Just like your diagram, except that the bridge pickup stays connected to the switch as normal.

What the tone pot does is drain off some treble from whatever it's connected to.
So instead of feeding it from the volume knob, you feed it from the bridge pickup's lug at the switch

 

[beaubrummels]

Hmm... I started to agree, but then I'm not sure I'm seeing the electrical difference, since whenever the bridge is active, the tone is still between the pickup and the volume pot?

If the switch were a blade, then you could have the tone tap off the volume and use one side of the blade to only make it active when the bridge is selected. That I think would avoid the interaction problem of the tone with the bridge impedance etc

 

[Backbeatdeano]

You don't want to actually run your bridge pickup through the tone pot.
That would turn down the pickup's volume as you turn down the tone.

Instead, bridge pickup and tone pot both connect to the same lug on the switch.
Just like your diagram, except that the bridge pickup stays connected to the switch as normal.

What the tone pot does is drain off some treble from whatever it's connected to.
So instead of feeding it from the volume knob, you feed it from the bridge pickup's lug at the switch

hey Eclectic. Yeh fair point! That makes sense now you say it! So just have the tone wires to the same lug on the switch as the hot bridge wire, and then I’ll have bridge tone, with no tone on the neck?! Also what happens in the middle pos out of interest?

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Hmm... I started to agree, but then I'm not sure I'm seeing the electrical difference, since whenever the bridge is active, the tone is still between the pickup and the volume pot?

If the switch were a blade, then you could have the tone tap off the volume and use one side of the blade to only make it active when the bridge is selected. That I think would avoid the interaction problem of the tone with the bridge impedance etc

hey Beau! Not quite sure I’m following you on this one. My objective is to have the tone control in the circuit for the bridge pickup, but not in the circuit when the neck is selected.

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Ok so hows aboot this? Couple of questions if it does work. Which lugs should i connect to on the tone pot, and the vol pot. And does the tone pot also need a ground wire running from the pot casing to the vol pot casing?

Cheers guys!

 

[beaubrummels]

hey Beau! Not quite sure I’m following you on this one. My objective is to have the tone control in the circuit for the bridge pickup, but not in the circuit when the neck is selected.

Your first drawing isn't what I believe GuitarDoc was saying to do. You don't run the pickup hot through the tone, you just tap the tone off the hot lead of the bridge; in other words, the hot of the bridge goes to the tone input and continues from the tone input to the switch - you don't use the third lug of the tone to go to the switch.

If you did what I believe GuitarDoc was saying and what I just said, if you trace the wire from the bridge pickup to the switch, there is no electronic difference between the tone being tapped off the bridge hot lead before the switch or at the switch like your second drawing.

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Your first drawing isn't what I believe GuitarDoc was saying to do. You don't run the pickup hot through the tone, you just tap the tone off the hot lead of the bridge; in other words, the hot of the bridge goes to the tone input and continues from the tone input to the switch - you don't use the third lug of the tone to go to the switch.

If you did what I believe GuitarDoc was saying and what I just said, if you trace the wire from the bridge pickup to the switch, there is no electronic difference between the tone being tapped off the bridge hot lead before the switch or at the switch like your second drawing.

Hey Beau, thanks for clarifying! I think I get what your saying now. So you could either wire the bridge hot to the tone lug 1, and then tone lug 1 to switch, or you could wire bridge hot to the switch, and then tap off that switch lug to the tone.

I am right in thinking that either of these solutions will get me what I’m after? No tone on the neck, tone on the bridge?

 

[beaubrummels]

Hey Beau, thanks for clarifying! I think I get what your saying now. So you could either wire the bridge hot to the tone lug 1, and then tone lug 1 to switch, or you could wire bridge hot to the switch, and then tap off that switch lug to the tone.

I am right in thinking that either of these solutions will get me what I’m after? No tone on the neck, tone on the bridge?

Yes, they are equivalent. The tone would only be active whenever the bridge is active.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

hey Eclectic. Yeh fair point! That makes sense now you say it! So just have the tone wires to the same lug on the switch as the hot bridge wire, and then I’ll have bridge tone, with no tone on the neck?! Also what happens in the middle pos out of interest?

Tone would be active whenever the bridge is selected - that is, in middle position as well.
To have it only in the one position I think you'd need a multipole switch, something like a three-position Superswitch.
Pretty sure these are made but my understanding is they're hard to source.

EDIT: Yes, you do need to ground the casing of the tone pot. Won't roll off any treble otherwise.

You could do it with a five-way Superswitch and get two extra options, but that becomes a much bigger job.
A Tele control cavity is small & cramped, and many needed to rout to fit a Superswitch, which is both wider and deeper.
Also, the wiring becomes a bit more complicated.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Your first drawing isn't what I believe GuitarDoc was saying to do. You don't run the pickup hot through the tone, you just tap the tone off the hot lead of the bridge; in other words, the hot of the bridge goes to the tone input and continues from the tone input to the switch - you don't use the third lug of the tone to go to the switch.

If you did what I believe GuitarDoc was saying and what I just said, if you trace the wire from the bridge pickup to the switch, there is no electronic difference between the tone being tapped off the bridge hot lead before the switch or at the switch like your second drawing.

Hey Beau, thanks for clarifying! I think I get what your saying now. So you could either wire the bridge hot to the tone lug 1, and then tone lug 1 to switch, or you could wire bridge hot to the switch, and then tap off that switch lug to the tone.

I am right in thinking that either of these solutions will get me what I’m after? No tone on the neck, tone on the bridge?

As far as I can tell, both ways are electrically equivalent. The pot will be loading the pickup equally either way.
I think the reason it's usually done at the switch is just that it's less work - changing one wire, rather than two.

 

[Backbeatdeano]

Thanks guys! You have been very helpful! I’m ok with the tone being active in the middle pos, so just wiring the current setup is going to work for me.

 

[El Dunco]

I think you’ve pretty much got the idea. Even if you don’t plan to build pedals, I think you would benefit from an electronics or small electrics course. It’s very useful alongside just having the confidence to dive in there with a soldering iron. I’ve made plenty of small mistakes, learning on the job once I figured it out before I learned more about electronics, but it sure was satisfying when I plugged in the guitar and it finally gave out full signal hooked up properly.

I pretty much became the guy all my guitarist friends in the music scene would come to when they wanted their upgraded pickups installed, as the professional electronics services had a tendency to try to take advantage by overcharging kids for what takes literally a minute, especially when it’s already mounted. Best of luck, let us know when you’ve got it working!

 

[GuitarDoc]

I think things have gotten a little muddy. This should be very simple. Follow this diagram for the bridge pup, except...instead of the output from the vol going to the jack, send it to a lug on the 3-way toggle switch. The neck pup hot wire goes to the other lug on the 3-way. The output from the 3-way goes to the jack.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/1H_1V_1T.jpg

 

[beaubrummels]

I think things have gotten a little muddy. This should be very simple. Follow this diagram for the bridge pup, except...instead of the output from the vol going to the jack, send it to a lug on the 3-way toggle switch. The neck pup hot wire goes to the other lug on the 3-way. The output from the 3-way goes to the jack.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/1H_1V_1T.jpg

So the neck won't be affected by the volume?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Ooops. Good catch. I guess I muddied it up a bit. I was so tired when I posted that, I wasn't thinking.

So, here's the basic diagram to follow.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/2H_3G_1V.jpg

But if you want the tone pot only on the bridge pup, just run a wire from the 3-way (where the bridge pup is connected) to the input lug of a tone pot. Put a cap on the tone pot as usual. This puts the tone pot in parallel with the bridge pup but it is not connected to the neck pup.

Sorry about the confusion. We all make mistakes.