Hows does your brain work

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

But I’ll bet that you look over at the bass player to see what he is playing....that’s how you know what to play or at least where to start.
Visual communication is still communication.

Which just proves that theoretical knowledge is unnecessary for communication. Don't think anyone said anything about communication being unnecessary

 

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Gtrjunior said...

But I’ll bet that you look over at the bass player to see what he is playing....that’s how you know what to play or at least where to start.
Visual communication is still communication.

Phantasmagoria said...

Which just proves that theoretical knowledge is unnecessary for communication. Don't think anyone said anything about communication being unnecessary

I was in marketing for a time. EVERYTHING is communication - the font, the background colors, the logo, the overall fit and feel - it's all part of communicating the message to the customer. Furthermore, the more EFFECTIVELY that you communicate with the customer, the more trust you'll develop in the customer.

In a band, if one player speaks in music theory, and another player is like, "Just do one of these things when you get to that part," then there's conflict. If it's going to work, those two players have to understand how to communicate with each other. The "music theory" player might actually be limited because they only know how to speak in music theory! If there's a lack of comfort between the players due to communication style, then there can be conflict in picking up on something as normal as taking visual ques from each other and such; and it can be the attitude of the "music theory" player that sets things off. I'd guess that a "pure music theorist" is not welcome in BB King's band, even if they're completely qualified; and it truly TRULY boils down to that player's attitude getting in the way.

I'm pretty sure that this is one of the reasons that bands change members and/or break up.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Yep, communication is the key when you're in a band, but there are a myriad of ways to get it done. When you've played in the same band for as long as I have we choose to communicate via subliminal interconnected-brainwave-instant-messaging. This is effective because we share the same band-width :bigthumb:

^^ What you get when a sloppy jam band masquerades as a doom/death metal band for 25+ years :laugh2:

 

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

...we choose to communicate via subliminal interconnected-brainwave-instant-messaging. This is effective because we share the same band-width :bigthumb:

I'll just go ahead and not write whatever might end up being written if I were to do so. That's how my brain works.

Off topic, that's the sound that I love coming from those instruments in that video, but I need melodic vocals or it's just wrong to my ears. Part of that is my love of vocals, almost more than guitar maybe. I have yet to run into a Death Metal / Sludge Metal band that has an actual vocalist as their front man...and that's because it would be a different genre of metal if there was such a thing.

What would THAT genre of metal be...??? Maybe some form of Nu Metal, but what...???

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I’ve never understood why people pride themselves on not knowing theory....is it a bad thing to have a respectable command of a language like music? We all consider ourselves musicians and we all have a deep love of music...then why would we shun knowledge and understanding of it? It makes no sense to me.
If somebody is happy playing minor pentatonic over everything then so be it....that’s fine if that’s what makes you happy but why paint yourself into a corner like that?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I'll just go ahead and not write whatever might end up being written if I were to do so. That's how my brain works.

Off topic, that's the sound that I love coming from those instruments in that video, but I need melodic vocals or it's just wrong to my ears. Part of that is my love of vocals, almost more than guitar maybe. I have yet to run into a Death Metal / Sludge Metal band that has an actual vocalist as their front man...and that's because it would be a different genre of metal if there was such a thing.

What would THAT genre of metal be...??? Maybe some form of Nu Metal, but what...???

haha..write whatever takes your fancy..I'm thicker skinned than an old mountain goat

Truth is I've got a love of vocals too...anything from Dan McCafferty/Lemmy/Brian Johnson's raspy awesomeness to classic Dio/Dickinson etc to the soaring melodic Yngwie-singer type stuff. But having said that I worshipped thrash & the death metal of the late 80's /early 90's as well back in the day & really got into that stuff heavily so yeah my love for vocals includes all the old-school 'cookie cutter' **** & gurgly gore-grind goodness as well (of which I am a proud purveyor myself) :lmao:

However I loathe nu-metal/metal-core type yelping/hollering ..can't listen to that **** at all. It sickens me ...so everyone's got their likes/dislikes..

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I’ve never understood why people pride themselves on not knowing theory....is it a bad thing to have a respectable command of a language like music? We all consider ourselves musicians and we all have a deep love of music...then why would we shun knowledge and understanding of it? It makes no sense to me.
If somebody is happy playing minor pentatonic over everything then so be it....that’s fine if that’s what makes you happy but why paint yourself into a corner like that?

If that was directed at me. I don't.

The fact is not only is it unnecessary for what I do.. it actually gets in the way/distracts from my playing process (and it's not an interesting/enjoyable read or subject of any interest to me either). As I said, if I'm unable to make practical use of it in real-time as I'm playing..I don't need it & out it goes.

I play whatever I think a song dictates. Yeah I like the melding of shred & the blues 'cause those are two 'guitar hero' type genres I grew up enjoying the most. Why not put them together..like this :bigthumb:

Does'nt just have to be minor pentatonic

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

If that was directed at me. I don't.

The fact is not only is it unnecessary for what I do.. it actually gets in the way/distracts from my playing process (and it's not an interesting/enjoyable read or subject of any interest to me either). As I said, if I'm unable to make practical use of it in real-time as I'm playing..I don't need it & out it goes.

I play whatever I think a song dictates. Yeah I like the melding of shred & the blues 'cause those are two 'guitar hero' type genres I grew up enjoying the most. Why not put them together..like this :bigthumb:

Does'nt just have to be minor pentatonic

Not directed specifically at you per se.
But it takes practice to be able to absorb things and then spit it out. Even improvisation is a form or “pre-rehearsed” maneuvers.

And don’t take this the wrong way, but whatever you played in that video on a musical level didn’t “say” anything. It just sounded like a blur of notes, many of which were out of key.
I’d like to hear you slow down and purposely target chord tones with a melody.

Here’s a song I wrote/recorded a couple of years ago. It’s a bit repetitive but I was just trying to get a few ideas down on tape...
Hear how I specifically remained in key and targeted the particular notes I wanted....and the harmonies...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yg17rmfp1jclu6/Audio Ozone 6.wav?dl=0

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Sure it takes practice. As I mentioned I did a lot of that before.

I'm just at a stage where the practice I now do is playing along with stuff. ..it's fun (main thing for me) , it gets me where I want to go and I'm happy with that. But for some reason you apparently are'nt...which is cool with me & not really a problem of mine either, cause it's a free world :bigthumb:

Personally I'm of the belief that stuff need'nt always be in key, or be conventional or even be melodic...there are are things like chromatics & various types of dissonance that often fit & flow well/sound cool. I'm not the only guy who feels that way (Zappa, Vai, Beck, Jarzombeck..etc).

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Hows does your brain work

If it makes ya happy...it’s all good!!

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Sweet

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Hows does your brain work

Sure it takes practice. As I mentioned I did a lot of that before.

I'm just at a stage where the practice I now do is playing along with stuff. ..it's fun (main thing for me) , it gets me where I want to go and I'm happy with that. But for some reason you apparently are'nt...which is cool with me & not really a problem of mine either, cause it's a free world :bigthumb:

Personally I'm of the belief that stuff need'nt always be in key, or be conventional or even be melodic...there are are things like chromatics & various types of dissonance that often fit & flow well/sound cool. I'm not the only guy who feels that way (Zappa, Vai, Beck, Jarzombeck..etc).

Zappa, Vai, and Beck all have (or had) really strong backgrounds in music theory. That's how they were able to make those chromatics and that dissonance work in a musical way. When you're trying to get unconventional sounds, it really helps to understand the rules for getting conventional sounds.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

All I can say is I'm happy for Zappa Vai & Beck. If that's what worked for them then that's great, but I would'nt take that to mean it's essential for everyone or a prerequisite of any sort for that sort of thing. Don't really see that it's really relevant at all. I don't personally hear much difference between their dissonance being musical and mine not except perhaps that my clip is a hell of a lot faster than anything they've ever done (Just stating an obvious fact...not crowing or anything..) They had/have their styles, I have mine..that's how I look at it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I never thought learning stuff was bad for me. The more I know about my musical world, the better equipped I am to participate in it. When I play something 'outside of the box', I want to do it because I chose to, not because I didn't know any better.

 

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I’ve never understood why people pride themselves on not knowing theory....is it a bad thing to have a respectable command of a language like music?

I'm a self-taught jack of all trades, master of none. Because of that, I always hit a brick wall at some point. I "conditionally" pride myself on that.

I know at least one guy who prides himself on his self-taught music theory knowledge base, and it's ridiculously out of whack. BUT, he's a marine who served in 'Nam, and looks like he came home more f'ed in the head than he was when he left for boot camp. Forced Recon, tunnel rat...two tours. Not fun.

All that he does with his guitars is sit in his living room and love the fact that he has them to play. In music theory, he hit that brick wall long long ago, and then just kept on pushing right through until he now has his head up his crack. And now he has limitations...THAT HE LIKES AND WANTS TO KEEP!

When I hit that brick wall in music theory, I did something about it...I found out just exactly why a person can get a Ph.D in music! And then I kept going in the right direction because that brick wall just always finds it's way back.

I know of no other reason to avoid music theory other than (1) disinterest in advancing past a certain point - which is conditionally acceptable, and/or (2) emotional ability to learn something difficult. I think of math: the craziest teachers I met in school were the math teachers...and the craziest students I met were either TOTALLY into math, or else they hated it and couldn't understand WHY it was being taught to them; with "algebra" being the final nail in their coffin. So, that being said, I honestly wonder just how far BB King has let the cuckoo out of the clock. It wasn't a disinterest in advancing his ability past the intermediate level that kept him from learning music theory...

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I never thought learning stuff was bad for me. The more I know about my musical world, the better equipped I am to participate in it. When I play something 'outside of the box', I want to do it because I chose to, not because I didn't know any better.

I guess that's what makes you you & me me

Personally when I play whatever I do, whether it's in or out of the box, it's because it sounds good to me & I'm following my ear...

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I’ve never understood why people pride themselves on not knowing theory....is it a bad thing to have a respectable command of a language like music? We all consider ourselves musicians and we all have a deep love of music...then why would we shun knowledge and understanding of it? It makes no sense to me.
If somebody is happy playing minor pentatonic over everything then so be it....that’s fine if that’s what makes you happy but why paint yourself into a corner like that?

Honestly, they dont feel like it. Its too much work and the payoff is too far down the road. Fact is, everybody HAS TO KNOW some theory. They may not say it, but they do. Watching Phantasmagoria play over the jam track, hes on the 13th fret because he is tuned half step down. Thats frickin theory, isnt it? Some people think they will lose their creativity because they know theory. That also is a load of dung

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I'm a self-taught jack of all trades, master of none. Because of that, I always hit a brick wall at some point. I "conditionally" pride myself on that.

I know at least one guy who prides himself on his self-taught music theory knowledge base, and it's ridiculously out of whack. BUT, he's a marine who served in 'Nam, and looks like he came home more f'ed in the head than he was when he left for boot camp. Forced Recon, tunnel rat...two tours. Not fun.

All that he does with his guitars is sit in his living room and love the fact that he has them to play. In music theory, he hit that brick wall long long ago, and then just kept on pushing right through until he now has his head up his crack. And now he has limitations...THAT HE LIKES AND WANTS TO KEEP!

When I hit that brick wall in music theory, I did something about it...I found out just exactly why a person can get a Ph.D in music! And then I kept going in the right direction because that brick wall just always finds it's way back.

I know of no other reason to avoid music theory other than (1) disinterest in advancing past a certain point - which is conditionally acceptable, and/or (2) emotional ability to learn something difficult. I think of math: the craziest teachers I met in school were the math teachers...and the craziest students I met were either TOTALLY into math, or else they hated it and couldn't understand WHY it was being taught to them; with "algebra" being the final nail in their coffin. So, that being said, I honestly wonder just how far BB King has let the cuckoo out of the clock. It wasn't a disinterest in advancing his ability past the intermediate level that kept him from learning music theory...

I had to go back to school, long story. The lady teacher mentioned modes and said nobody uses them much anymore. I was like WTF you talking about? Sweet Child O mine is in Mixo, Santana plays Dorian all the time. And she was going for her Phd LOL

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I guess that's what makes you you & me me

Personally when I play whatever I do, whether it's in or out of the box, it's because it sounds good to me & I'm following my ear...

You probably know more theory than anybody in this conversation LOL You're a good player, those arpeggios didnt sound great by an accident

 

[Gransen]

Re: Hows does your brain work

I had to go back to school, long story. The lady teacher mentioned modes and said nobody uses them much anymore. I was like WTF you talking about? Sweet Child O mine is in Mixo, Santana plays Dorian all the time. And she was going for her Phd LOL

How could someone at THAT level not know this...!?!

That half step up from the root in Phrygian got me HOOKED on that mode!!! Just the right amount of tension, and exactly where it needs to be for Death / Sludge Metal...