I can't be imagining things, can I?

Archer250

Well-known member
So I was rehearsing a bit earlier, and the rest of the band came rather late. I had set everything up. While I was setting up the dirt pedals, I noticed something:
Whenever I tried to match the output of the fundamental note to the clean tone, I had to set the volume past unity. The distorted tone sounds louder when it's not.

Anybody noticed this too, or did I have a glass of vodka cocktail too many?
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

What I'm saying is that a distorted tone seems to sound louder than it actually is.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

On a lot of pedals 'unity' isn't 12 o'clock (If I'm reading you correctly). On some of my lower end pedals and also my vintage style fuzzes, unity tends to be around 2-3 on the volume knob, wheras on higher headorom pedals, my unity volume is around 9-10 o'clock.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

Unless you're measuring with an SPL meter, how do you know how loud it "actually" is? Are you assuming that unity volume is at a specific point on the dirt pedal's knob? Unity is wherever it is.

And why would you need to go "past" unity (which suggests going higher) to keep the sound from being louder? That seems counterintuitive.

All that said, there ARE reasons that a distorted sound can seem louder than a clean one at the same SPL, but it's nothing to worry about. Just fiddle with the knobs until everything sounds the way you want it.

What I'm saying is that a distorted tone seems to sound louder than it actually is.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

Hmm... Not really. I dunno how to really describe it. It's like if I set my pedals so that I achieve a smooth transition between clean and distorted sounds, the distorted fundamental note is a bit quieter, and the harmonics make the distorted tone sound loud. When I set my pedals' level so that the distorted fundamental tone is equal to the clean tone, I can't really make a smooth transition because the harmonics jump out.

Given your responses, I guess I'm imagining things, though.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

Oohh yeah now I get it. You're talking about the compression. When you turn on that switch, even if the volume is pedal is the 'same' you will notice that the initial attack sounds a bit quieter, because the sound itself is being squished. The distorted sound naturally compresses your tone a bit (or a lot, depends on the pedal), which means the tone evens out, the louds become a bit quieter and the quiets become a bit louder. Think of turning on a distortion pedal as like pouring water into a funnel, it starts wide open and it gets pushed into a focused stream as it comes out the other side. This subdues the highs and the bass a touch as well. Mind you, this isnt a bad thing at all, this is purely the nature of clipping and distortion. We ALL love the sound of distortion even if on a fundamental level it is 'destroying' the tone.

Now, as for why it sounds louder at the same time. Like I said with the funnel, it comes out as a much more focused sound, and the part that DOESN'T get squished as much is in the midrange. Guitar is a midrange instrument, and with the bass and treble being squished a bit, this causes that specific range (the range that IS the main voice of the guitar) to stand out. As a result, our ears actually pick it up as being louder overall, even if we carefully try to make it unity with the clean sound.

On an interesting note, and this might be different in your country, but have you ever noticed how LOUD advertisements are on TV? In most cases the TV company itself controls the volume of the broadcast, and would try to equalise the sound of the programmes and the advertisements. The advertisers used a bit of a dirty trick, and most television ads are HEAVILY compressed, focusing that midrange making it sound THAT MUCH LOUDER even though it's 'technically' at the same volume as the tv shows around it.

That all being said, things should get louder when you turn your drive on. If you set it for exact unity volume you will get the exact issue you are facing: It sounds weirdly quieter when you turn the pedal on because of all the compression. In your own words, turn it up so that the fundamental is LOUDER than your clean tone. It may sound weird to have a bigger jump in volume when practicing on your own, but in a band setting it'll fit in much better in the mix.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

Oohh yeah now I get it. You're talking about the compression. When you turn on that switch, even if the volume is pedal is the 'same' you will notice that the initial attack sounds a bit quieter, because the sound itself is being squished. The distorted sound naturally compresses your tone a bit (or a lot, depends on the pedal), which means the tone evens out, the louds become a bit quieter and the quiets become a bit louder. Think of turning on a distortion pedal as like pouring water into a funnel, it starts wide open and it gets pushed into a focused stream as it comes out the other side. This subdues the highs and the bass a touch as well. Mind you, this isnt a bad thing at all, this is purely the nature of clipping and distortion. We ALL love the sound of distortion even if on a fundamental level it is 'destroying' the tone.

AHA!

On an interesting note, and this might be different in your country, but have you ever noticed how LOUD advertisements are on TV? In most cases the TV company itself controls the volume of the broadcast, and would try to equalise the sound of the programmes and the advertisements. The advertisers used a bit of a dirty trick, and most television ads are HEAVILY compressed, focusing that midrange making it sound THAT MUCH LOUDER even though it's 'technically' at the same volume as the tv shows around it.

Yes, I have

And thanks. Actually, I don't find the jump weird at all. It depends on the situation and how loud the amp already is, though. Usually when I practice, I have the band do it's thing, and then I'll alternate between clean and distorted and set the dirt up so it's as present as the clean... then the band stops and I notice the volume jump.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

Most dirt is quieter than the same loudness of clean. Dirt is compressed. The volume hits a point where the gain maxes the volume and it gets none more louder.
 
Re: I can't be imagining things, can I?

I think I understand what you're asking, and I've noticed the same thing. When (by ear) you attempt to equate (volume-wise) a clean single note to the same distorted single note, then (again by ear) compare chords clean vs. distorted, the volume appears different. When the distortion is mild, the distorted chord sounds louder and I think it's due to harmonics; when the distortion is greater, it sounds softer due to compression. If you match chords volume-wise, the effect on single notes is reversed.

I've wondered if this was my imagination, so out of curiosity, I checked it with a SPL meter vs. my ear. Seems as if the additional perceived volume due to harmonics doesn't validate with the the meter, but the compression effect does.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;)
 
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