I can't make strat's sing!

[uOpt]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

So here's a question for the old hands who tried a lot of guitars:

when I want to make a guitar sing (as much as I'm able to), I try to keep the tone alive with vibrato, either with a classical style hand shake along the neck, or across the fret. That certainly extends sustain, which I assume is from the friction of the frets transmitting some energy from the hand to the strings.

Does that still work with stainless steel frets? I imagine they are so smooth that the string doesn't get motivated by sliding over the fret anymore.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Yeah- Strats and Teles in general require you to work alot harder, and more importantly alot "smarter". When it works, it's great, when you are "off"-- ugh it's horrid.

Seems to tie in with various comments I've heard over the years. Maybe I'm in the Gibson camp because I'm lazy. I want a nice sound without wrestling for it. If you listen to two guitarists that are equally as good as each other, one a Fender player, the other a Gibson man; the Fender guy is probably the better guitarist of the two. But that also means that there are more Strat players who don't know how to get those magic sounds from their instruments, and end up sounding pretty tinny.

 

[sosomething]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Seems to tie in with various comments I've heard over the years. Maybe I'm in the Gibson camp because I'm lazy. I want a nice sound without wrestling for it. If you listen to two guitarists that are equally as good as each other, one a Fender player, the other a Gibson man; the Fender guy is probably the better guitarist of the two. But that also means that there are more Strat players who don't know how to get those magic sounds from their instruments, and end up sounding pretty tinny.

This is the first time I've ever seen any post from you that had anything remotely positive to say about a Fender (or non-Gibson) instrument whatsoever.



So when will you be trading the 335 for a Tele Thinline?

 

[jerryjg]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Most any good overdrive pedal will make your guitar sing.

 

[Yngwiestein]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Do you play with a low action? You need to have at least a medium action to get sustain. That and amp volume & drive level give you more singing sustain. Do you push hard on the strings? Try pushing them more lightly.

 

[guitarded]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

I think knowing how to deal and react to different instruments including amps should be a development goal of any player. I know a few really good players who are so dependent on their tone, they can have a totally off night if anything goes wrong and they have to use something they are not used to.

Seems to tie in with various comments I've heard over the years. Maybe I'm in the Gibson camp because I'm lazy. I want a nice sound without wrestling for it. If you listen to two guitarists that are equally as good as each other, one a Fender player, the other a Gibson man; the Fender guy is probably the better guitarist of the two. But that also means that there are more Strat players who don't know how to get those magic sounds from their instruments, and end up sounding pretty tinny.

 

[ErikH]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

+1 for backing down the pickups (for true single-coils anyway) and raising up the action. A good setup goes a long way on a Strat.

Depending on the set of pickups you have, run a 500k volume and 2 x 250k tones. I did that to my TX Specials loaded Strat the other night and it opened it up to what I've been wanting to hear. It sounds less congested (as JeffB put it) and really sings and sustains better.

 

[guitarded]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Good point.... Strats seem to do better with medium to high action. It's just something you get used to when you play them a lot. IMO that is one of the characteristics that allow you to be more expressive with the instrument cause you can hit it real hard or light and get totally different tones and reactions.

Do you play with a low action? You need to have at least a medium action to get sustain. That and amp volume & drive level give you more singing sustain. Do you push hard on the strings? Try pushing them more lightly.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

You have to "work" the guitar, you can't just "play" it. Strat and Tele's are very responsive to touch and attack. There are a ton of tones that a player can coax from a Fender.

The beauty of a Strat is how user friendly it is in the control layout...the volume knob is at your fingertips...the tone knobs are just a touch away from the volume. Do you want to switch pups mid solo? No problem....the switch is right there.

I could never be as expressive with most Gibson style guitars because all of the controls are so far away from my hands and I can never get one clean enough with the smaller tube amps I prefer.

It isn't that Fenders are better than Gibsons or vice-versa..it is all a matter of preference...maybe the Fenders are less forgiving, but I believe the payoff is worth the extra effort.

 

[guitarded]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

I think the volume control is just a little in the way at times, which is why I find my Tele a little more ergonomically pleasing. Overall, though I think the Strat is one of the best all around designs and one of the best all purpose guitars you can ask for.

The beauty of a Strat is how user friendly it is in the control layout...the volume knob is at your fingertips...the tone knobs are just a touch away from the volume. Do you want to switch pups mid solo? No problem....the switch is right there.

 

[shawnr]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

You really have to lay into Fenders--at least strats and teles. Go to You Tube and watch some Rory Gallagher--that's one of the reasons there's no finish on that strat.

If you saw my picks you'd see a big difference, my strats get about a week's use from an Ultex .73 while my Hamer's had the same Pickboy 1.00 for the last year.

 

[blueman335]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

This is the first time I've ever seen any post from you that had anything remotely positive to say about a Fender (or non-Gibson) instrument whatsoever.

So when will you be trading the 335 for a Tele Thinline?

I've made this comment a few times actually. I admire a talented Fender player. They can make them sound pretty good (I can't). Jimi thru a Marshall...pure heaven. Likewise for Ritchie Blackmore, Jeff Healey, Coco Montoya, Rory Gallagher, etc. But the average local Strat player sounds so tinny.

Since my 335's, LP's & SG's sound so darn good after all my incessant tweaking (at least to my ears), I couldn't give them up. Besides, I just can't relate to Fenders; the design is too foreign to me.

 

[guitarded]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

There are also a lot of Gibson or full humbuckers guitars in which players don't dial right and end up sounding like a wall of mud.

I always get second opinions when i dial in new settings as my HF hearing loss has gotten so bad, I sometimes don't realize I have too much high end and upper mids. I think every player should have a few other players critique his/her tone, to avoid what you describe.

Likewise for Ritchie Blackmore, Jeff Healey, Coco Montoya, Rory Gallagher, etc. But the average local Strat player sounds so tinny.

 

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Interesting enough, I have had only mixed experiences with Fender Strats. I presently have a 2008 Ash Strat. It sustains well unplugged. (Not as well as my much lighter Ibanez ash SA did). Zhang is trying to remedy it with some custom pups.

I can get Teles to do sooooo much. I can get tremolo-ed guitars from other manufacturers to do well. Fender Strats? Unless Zhang is a miracle worker (I am holding out hope), I think Strats just aren't a guitar I was made to play.

I don't buy into the "Fenders make you work for tone" deal-e-o. The Tele is THE guitar to make one work for tone, by conventional wisdom. Dang, it is so easy for me to do jazz to metal on a Tele. My take-we were all destined for certain guitars.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Talk talk..play guys.....wring those necks

 

[Pierre]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Yep. Get out of here and come back when you CAN make her sing :laugh2:


Anyway... I play my Strats with medium/high action, quite loud, and I can't make them sing proper either. I get a lot of overtones which bother me, pickup height changes can't cure this, and I'm a lot sloppier through a Strat than through most set neck axes it seems... But that's the nature of the beasts. I've only been playing for three years and never had lessons so I'm obviously not the best player.

Strats help me overcome my mistakes by making them more obvious. Then I can rectify.

I've never had sustain issues with Strats though... now bridge pickup thinness, that's another problem... even with some buckers.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

...sissies!!
Get some tougher wrists!

Well there is no two way around that!!

 

[Karmadog777]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

gain......tube screamer.......finger MOJO

 

[JeffB]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Somewhat on topic-

I was a lifelong Gibson style player- les Pauls, explorers, Vs, SGs, Deans, Hamers, Destroyers, etc etc. And while I've owned alot of strats and superstrats, I never could gel with them and sold them soon therafter- as someone mentioned, anything non-gibson like felt very alien to me- especially a regular old Fender strat- the lack of neck/string and bridge angle, and the body shape, you name it- it felt weird.

Then Carpal Tunnel crept up on me, and those gibson style guitars became very painful for me to play- I still cannot pinpoint why but I think it's mainly because of the aforementioned "angles". All of a sudden Strats felt very comfy, not only in a pain free way, but the body shape, the location of the controls (volume control used to bug the bejeesus out of me), all the "ergonomics" fell into place- after 20 years of not being able to get used to them!?? It's the ****dest thing.

I picked up a used Epi recently because no matter what a Strat with buckers will never achieve anything close to that Les Paul/Gibson sound, but after months of playing strats pain-free, within 2 days of picking up the Epiphone, my CTS was rearing it's ugly head again. So when the urge for that sound hits, I'll have something to mess around with, but the Strat has become my #1 and feels "right". I will say it definitely has made me improve my technique, and lets me know when I'm being a sloppy ho with my picking hand :laugh2:

 

[jimijames]

Re: I can't make strat's sing!

Do you play with a low action? You need to have at least a medium action to get sustain. That and amp volume & drive level give you more singing sustain. Do you push hard on the strings? Try pushing them more lightly.

What? So you can't get sustain with low action? And if you press down hard on strings? I'm sorry, but changing action hasn't done squat for or to my sustain, I have a guitar for slide where the strings are about 1/4" off the fretboard, and my les paul with greased-lightning action sustains better. And I've found out that the harder you bear down on the string, the more solid the contact with the fret is, resulting in... more sustain! Just don't press halfway in between the frets, or the note will go sharp.

Here's a complete and extended list of what gets sustain:
1.)Mass

If you were to control for players, you would find that the difference in sustain from instrument to instrument results from mass. The heavier the bridge material, the more sustain. Locking tuners - more sustain than vintage tuners. Bigger strings - more sustain. more dense wood grain (i.e. heavier guitar) - more sustain. It may not all be about mass (as in lp style tune o matic sustains better because of better coupling), but it is 95% of what matters.