I don't understand my Gibson SG

[alex1fly]

Coming from 18 years in Fender land, I am having an interesting time getting to know this Gibson SG that I picked up earlier this year. I'd never been inspired by Gibsons, but the thing just oozed tone and woody vibes, I was looking for something different, plus the price was right so I brought it home. I've been plinking on it for several months now and after a couple of jam sessions with others, I'm as confused by this guitar as ever. It is all mahogany with 57 Classics.

Cleans - Fat. Woody. Marvelous sound. Warm, even the bridge pickup. Needing to add treble at the amp. Almost lacks dynamic response to picking attack - all notes kind of come out the same. Middle position seems to make the tone thinner and more clear, which is a nice contrast to the neck or bridge by themselves. Gorgeous bedroom tone, live it feels a little clumsy. Less to "explore" because my picking dynamics don't come across, but probably sounds better and more consistent to the listener.

High gain - Oh my. This is the money. The compressed nature makes high gain riffage real smooth and slick sounding. Solos sound like I know what I'm doing. Classic, almost radio-ready sound. I almost don't know what to do with a classic sound after so many years of chasing my own sound. I can't seem to get any extra snarl by picking harder. Would probably sound nice on a recording.

Hardware - I don't know what to do with 2 volumes and 2 tones. Running volume at 50% and below seems to open up the sound and let it breathe somewhat. 2 tone knobs feels crazy when the whole guitar is so warm. Frets are super tall even after I crowned them. Tempted to take off more fret height so its closer to what I'm used to. I was pushing notes out of tune easily so I put on heavy gauge strings... not pushing notes out of tune anymore but my fingertips are sore from a 2 hr jam, what gives? Love the fixed bridge... tuning is super stable. Whole guitar is 6.5 lbs so it's no sweat to pick it up and plink. 24.75" scale is a revelation! I can hit lines and chords that I never thought possible.

Live band - so many mids! What do I do with all these mids? I am taking up a boatload of musical space here. Usually I take up space by playing big chords with a fat attack and thin out my sound by backing off the attack... this guitar takes up the same amount of space with a single note. I need to find a new way to dial it down and play dynamically - maybe the volume knob plays more of a role here than my picking hand.

Anyways, just reflecting on this instrument instead of working. Back to it.

Alex

 

[Demanic]

Well, now you understand why people start "scooping" the mids on an amp. Two volumes two tones let you get some interesting middle switch position tones. And if you are playing into an amp on the edge of breaking up, you can set your pickups to switch between a cleaner and more overdriven sound with the three way switch on the guitar.

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[ErikH]

When I had a SG with P90's (SG Classic from about 10 years ago or so), same thing. Big sound and took up a lot of sonic space. But that was a good thing. When it comes to backing off, that's where the 2 volumes/2 tones come in handy. Dial the neck pickup to a lower volume that lets you "sit back" a bit, or even roll the tone off the bridge some and play lighter or switch to the neck and play lighter. When you want to dig in, it will respond. As for your fingers being sore, stick to the string gauge you are used to and lighten up your fret hand a little bit. Will take a little getting used to. The heavier strings are what's doing it. Thicker strings = more tension = tougher on the hand = sore. I love SG's and have a SG Junior now. Simple with 1 P90 volume/tone. But I wouldn't mind a SG Standard. '57 Classics are right at home in a SG body. Big tone.

 

[Top-L]

Whole guitar is 6.5 lbs so it's no sweat to pick it up and plink.

This is the only thing I don't understand. How is that possible? My Ibanez S guitars are 6# 11oz.

 

[ErikH]

This is the only thing I don't understand. How is that possible? My Ibanez S guitars are 6# 11oz.

Do your S guitars have an Edge trem on them? They usually have a big block on them. That can add more weight over a thin body with a TOM/STOP setup. It's only a 3oz difference. No two pieces are the same either. One slab can be super light and another slab of the same species can be an anchor.

 

[ItsaBass]

Welcome to the world of humbuckers. Mid City, and a lot more compression.

You'll get used to it (or not). You need to play them more lightly. Your entire right hand dynamic approach needs to be tweaked a bit, or else it's just mids, mud, and compression.

It's certainly easier to get Fender pickups sounding like them than it is to go the other way.

 

[Demanic]

This is the only thing I don't understand. How is that possible? My Ibanez S guitars are 6# 11oz.

Dude, time to start with some moderate dumbbells.

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[Top-L]

Dude, time to start with some moderate dumbbells.

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I lift heavy every day.

 

[Top-L]

Do your S guitars have an Edge trem on them? They usually have a big block on them. That can add more weight over a thin body with a TOM/STOP setup. It's only a 3oz difference. No two pieces are the same either. One slab can be super light and another slab of the same species can be an anchor.

I didnt know there was an authentic Gibson that weighed less than 9# anywhere on the planet.

 

[Bogner]

I lift heavy every day.

Maybe you are over-training?

Try training to failure for 5 sets and train each body part once a week.

 

[ErikH]

I didnt know there was an authentic Gibson that weighed less than 9# anywhere on the planet.

Hahaha. Oh yeah. There’s quite a lot. Any of the Juniors, SG’s, Melody Makers, Semi-hollows, and yes, even Les Pauls (though you really need to dig for a LP under 9, but they are out there).

 

[Mincer]

The pickups on an SG are not in the same place as they are on many guitars, so that provides a certain unfocussed tone. Some people get around that with more gain than they would usually use.

 

[Top-L]

Maybe you are over-training?

Try training to failure for 5 sets and train each body part once a week.

PPL

 

[Top-L]

Hahaha. Oh yeah. There’s quite a lot. Any of the Juniors, SG’s, Melody Makers, Semi-hollows, and yes, even Les Pauls (though you really need to dig for a LP under 9, but they are out there).

In prior decades I played Ibanez S series, and it was billed as lightest weight with narrow, tapered body. Ironically, whatever weight savings were made with the smaller body (apparently) were offset by the weight of the trem.

I really don't like the S series guitar because the body is too small and it "sits" too far to the right. I like guitars that reach farther left, I can get a better angle on the upper frets. Next time I'm in GC I will take a closer look at the SG. I haven't had one in my hands for 15+ years.

If its that light, does it suffer from neck dive?

 

[ErikH]

In prior decades I played Ibanez S series, and it was billed as lightest weight with narrow, tapered body. Ironically, whatever weight savings were made with the smaller body (apparently) were offset by the weight of the trem.

I really don't like the S series guitar because the body is too small and it "sits" too far to the right. I like guitars that reach farther left, I can get a better angle on the upper frets. Next time I'm in GC I will take a closer look at the SG. I haven't had one in my hands for 15+ years.

If its that light, does it suffer from neck dive?

I remember when those S series game out, especially the ones that were ridiculously thin. They are super light. A friend in college had one. They felt weird to me with the smaller body size and with me being 6' 3", makes smaller body guitars feel like a toy.

The SG can have neck dive. It all depends on the weight of the neck vs the body and also the weight of the tuners. With stock Gibsons, I've not experienced it much. The SG Classic I had balanced perfectly. The SG Jr I have now (which is a kit guitar, not a Gibson) has zero neck dive.

 

[Bogner]

PPL

It was a joke...lol

 

[alex1fly]

When I had a SG with P90's (SG Classic from about 10 years ago or so), same thing. Big sound and took up a lot of sonic space. But that was a good thing. When it comes to backing off, that's where the 2 volumes/2 tones come in handy. Dial the neck pickup to a lower volume that lets you "sit back" a bit, or even roll the tone off the bridge some and play lighter or switch to the neck and play lighter. When you want to dig in, it will respond. As for your fingers being sore, stick to the string gauge you are used to and lighten up your fret hand a little bit. Will take a little getting used to. The heavier strings are what's doing it. Thicker strings = more tension = tougher on the hand = sore. I love SG's and have a SG Junior now. Simple with 1 P90 volume/tone. But I wouldn't mind a SG Standard. '57 Classics are right at home in a SG body. Big tone.

This is the only thing I don't understand. How is that possible? My Ibanez S guitars are 6# 11oz.

Welcome to the world of humbuckers. Mid City, and a lot more compression.

You'll get used to it (or not). You need to play them more lightly. Your entire right hand dynamic approach needs to be tweaked a bit, or else it's just mids, mud, and compression.

It's certainly easier to get Fender pickups sounding like them than it is to go the other way.

I'm so used to wrangling tones out of the Fender style guitars! I can be really musical with them, but there is absolutely a violent element to it. And perhaps this SG wants to be cuddled instead of slapped around. It is interesting to have to switch from "getting what I want from this instrument" to "getting what this instrument gives me".

I have a couple other shorter scale mahogany/humbucker guitars in the stable for comparison, but the SG just dominates them in terms of warmth. Maybe I need to do some more drastic EQ work than what I'm used to.

How different are the pickups placed in the SG vs other similar guitars?

And yes, it is certainly 6.5 lbs. The body is super thin and the finish is barely there. Not Ibanez S thin, but pretty dang close.

 

[ErikH]

Well, the pickups in it are used in a bunch of other Gibson models and are sold as aftermarket as well. I've actually had '57 Classics in a Frankenstrat before. They sounded great there. Not as warm as you'd get in the SG but it fattened that guitar up. The '57 Classic Plus in to a raging Marshall gave me instant early VH tones. It was just there in the ballpark very close to home plate.

Mahogany has a warmer tone naturally compared to Alder that your Strat is probably made of. Add in the mahogany neck and it warms up more. Then add the humbuckers like the '57 Classics and you have what you hear. It's a great combo, IMO. Sounds like you got one that checks all the boxes in terms of killer tone and play-ability.

 

[alex1fly]

Another interesting point I'd forgotten about - the neck felt real wobbly at first with .10s. Like I could pull the pitch a half step in either direction with the slightest pressure. I'm doing some searches in various places and it looks like there's some discussion about this. I don't know anything about neck tenons or glue joints, but I do know that the neck feels way more stable with the heavy gauge strings (.14s! George Benson TIs. I was curious. Wow!). But I usually play .10s so it'd be nice to get back down to that size (or 11s, even) while avoiding that wobbly feeling. I saw some advice on one thread about setting it up with a straight neck (little to no relief) and cranking the tailpiece down.

 

[ErikH]

Yeah. That’s because of where the neck joins the body. Has little to do with the tenon. Notice which fret is where the neck meets the body compared with your Strat. 14 gauge strings? No wonder your hands hurt. Back down to 11’s at least and work from there.