I *hate* micing up cabs

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

record as dry as you can stand it.

Well .... I mean, Gillmour and May record their stuff with all the modulation pedals they run live, dont they? And so does our Kevlar3000 from what he told me ....

 

[34029324079]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

anymore I just throw a mic in front of a cone, maybe move it a bit to reduce harshness and hit go. let the listeners suffer I say! 10 people will love it, 10 will hate it, and about 10 million will never hear it.

ur shiznit is awesome u should put out more stuff.


home recording is a means to an end. there are only 2-3 producer/sound-engineers on this forum that can make studio quality recordings for an album. so the rest of us are making demos. what u do with the demos is where the real magic lies. be it to land gigs, get fans, or join a band.

 

[Vetteboy]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

1) Turn the distortion down by at least half from your "live" settings. Its not needed. Too much gain is the biggest offense I see when working with other players

Definitely. Let the music and the production make it heavy; your sound doesn't have to be. I rarely get the gain up above 5 even recording chunky rythym tracks.

3) As for actual mic placement, put a 57 halfway between the speaker edge and the dust cap angled in towards the dust cap. For more bass move towards the edge. For more treble move towards the dust cap.

As was mentioned angle the mic at 45 degrees and move it towards the edge of the speaker.

This is exactly what I do. I usually match it to the angle of the speaker cone.

6) Ultimately the "fullness" etc you hear on a record has to do with the double tracking/layering of different sounds/panning etc

Yep. You can spend hours dialing in a great sound by itself only to find that it craps all over the track once you start building on it.

Not that it's a supreme example of recorded guitar tone, but here are two of the more recent 'heavy' tracks I did...gain on 5, doubled rythym guitar panned hard left/right.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7137295

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7101989 <- little clipping on this one

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

Its never been a particular difficult process for me but it hasn't been without its frustrations.

1) Turn the distortion down by at least half from your "live" settings. Its not needed. Too much gain is the biggest offense I see when working with other players

This is some golden advice right here. My very first recordings, I'd layer on the distortion and all it would do is make the guitar sound smaller in the mix. I've found it's a lot easier to make up the gain in the mix (the latest toy I've messed around with is the "Massey Tape" plugin, great for taking a clipped signal and really pushing it over the edge).

2) It takes experience to do up front, but keep in mind what the sound needs to be in the mix. Many guys futz and futz to get this huge low end sound only to have the mix engineer remove it to allow for a bass guitar in the mix.

Genius again. Guitar are all about the midrange. Sure, the guitars may sound really killer solo if you add in more lowend, but in the mix it's going to get lost real quick.

6) Ultimately the "fullness" etc you hear on a record has to do with the double tracking/layering of different sounds/panning etc

Yep, it's pretty dizzying when you read interviews on what some of these mixing engineers do to make the guitar sounds we hear on records. I've never seen the point from what I've messed around with, but to each his own I guess. You have to applaud people's dedication to the craft when they start layering 4 different amps to bring out a chorus/EQ/pan/double track/throw on effects/etc.


I guess everybody has their own style when it comes to mixing. I'll focus it where it's the brightest/loudest and I'll keep the mic a few inches off of the cabinet to get some outside space in the picture (if it's ear piercing in the mic, it's probably really like that in the room and the amp should be tweaked to be a little darker). Any brightness can be countered easy enough with a little EQ or VCA compression (the loudest parts are usually the brightest, so I'll just lower the threshold to warm it up). If a guitar stands out too much in the mix, compression and reverb (or short delay) can change that real quick in a really positive way. That goes with any instrument really. That's my stance anyways as a complete amateur.

 

[34029324079]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

true^^ ur prolly gonna have to layer the rhythym guitar - record the same rhythym track a couple times and play all the tracks together simultaneously. Many use different amp settings and a different amp when they do this. I have found it to sound huge.

 

[ex-250]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

i tried micing probaby one or two times and it sucked. i only use my PODxt for recording, and have for years now.

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

i tried micing probaby one or two times and it sucked. i only use my PODxt for recording, and have for years now.

I gotta say, as much as I hate micing up cabs, I hated my old PODxt more .

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I gotta say, as much as I hate micing up cabs, I hated my old PODxt more .

Amen

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

You probably know this already. But try going off-axis.

The mic has to be facing away from the center of the speaker and into the middle of the cone, on an angle. So you are not micing the center, not the outside rim, but the center of the speaker cone. This will result in a full tone, not too boomy, not too nasally. That's how I've been micing it for a long time.

I use an SM57 and a 1960 series marshall cab with the plexi.

Just focus on getting a clean signal, and EQ or multiband the rest using software.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I get the heaviest and fullest tone with a dynamic mic when I place the mic as close as possible to the cone, I take the speaker grille off if I can and get right on up in there, I position the mic directly on axis pretty far out from the center, maybe 70% from the center to the outside.

Hope that helps you man.

Hit my soundclick for an analysis of the sounds of:

Shure Beta 57A - On Axis Far - On Axis Close - Off Axis Close
Sennheiser 421 - On Axis Far - On Axis Close - Off Axis Close

Those six samples will give you an idea of what the tone coloration is like between on axis and off, close and far. The audio samples are a human voice, reading from a textbook about exactly what you're asking about, coincidentally.

Basically, close is fuller, with more bass, see "Proximity Effect" and off-axis is like rolling the tone knob back, it colors the tone "darker." Listen with your own ears, form your opinions, and find a spot and record as loud as you can.

Love,
Hunter

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

anymore I just throw a mic in front of a cone, maybe move it a bit to reduce harshness and hit go. let the listeners suffer I say! 10 people will love it, 10 will hate it, and about 10 million will never hear it.

Ain't that the truth...

 

[sosomething]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

So much can happen in the mixing. Just get the best tone you can into the computer/recorder and deal with it later.

I don't claim to be an expert engineer or mixer but that's pretty much the opposite of what I would tell anyone to do.


Crap in, crap out.


If the tone hitting the boards isn't happening, no amount of studio wizardry is gonna make it so.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I don't claim to be an expert engineer or mixer but that's pretty much the opposite of what I would tell anyone to do.


Crap in, crap out.


If the tone hitting the boards isn't happening, no amount of studio wizardry is gonna make it so.

I'll drink to that --- don't rest until it sounds exactly like you want it, before it's mixed. I took lots of years of Recording classes in college and our professor was always very very clear about that --- garbage in garbage out.

 

[DankStar]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

sometimes it helps to listen to stuff in your car. record a few different variations (write 'em down so you don't forget what's what) and check them through your car stereo. for some reason, the good ones really stick out from the bad ones in a car. ones you thought were bad might be good.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I don't claim to be an expert engineer or mixer but that's pretty much the opposite of what I would tell anyone to do.


Crap in, crap out.


If the tone hitting the boards isn't happening, no amount of studio wizardry is gonna make it so.

I don't disagree, you didn't understand my meaning. I didn't say get the "worst" tone I said get the "best" you can. If he has bad equipment there isn't anything you're going to do to fix that.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I don't disagree, you didn't understand my meaning. I didn't say get the "worst" tone I said get the "best" you can. If he has bad equipment there isn't anything you're going to do to fix that.

Yeah, I figured you were not against "GIGO."

He was probably frustrated with hearing people say "we'll fix it in the mix," because that's always bull****.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

Yeah, I figured you were not against "GIGO."

He was probably frustrated with hearing people say "we'll fix it in the mix," because that's always bull****.

I agree with you guys.

 

[StillLearnin']

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

For what it's worth... I always end up getting the mic pointed at the cone up about 2" from the dust cap. I find that it gives me real punchy mids, good highs and smoother bass. At that point I have a very inclusive frequency range to play with in the mix. 9 times out of 10 I only end up adding a little sparkle to the guitar sound barely even touching the EQ. I like to have plenty of mids on the guitar so it easily finds its spot in the mix.

That being said, I second the approach of listening to a few cuts in the car stereo as you mix. I typically stick a known good sounding CD in there first, get my ears dialed into that, then pop my stuff in. It wakes you up real quick when something's out of whack.

My *biggest* issue is getting bass to sound right (mic'd or direct)... I have to screw with that way too much though I have learned a few tricks that are helping.

 

[sosomething]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

I don't disagree, you didn't understand my meaning. I didn't say get the "worst" tone I said get the "best" you can. If he has bad equipment there isn't anything you're going to do to fix that.

Oh, true, true.

But he's mic'ing up plenty decent cabs with decent mics so unless there's some kind of crazy stuff going on in the signal path before the boards, he SHOULD be able to get something worth tracking.

That's all I was trying to say.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: I *hate* micing up cabs

The best recorded guitar tone I ever got was done using three sources:

1. SM57 three inches back from the grill, halfway between the center and rim of the speaker.
2. NT2 about six feet from the speaker.
3. Amp's recording out direct to the board (amp was a Mesa DC-3).

Spent a few minutes mixing the three signals and moving the NT2 until I got something I liked, and sent them to one track.