I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

[justFred]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

NO, NO, NO!!!...modelers cannot recreate the true tube amp experience!!!
first discovery came with the PRRI at a little jam...after a few weeks of being convinced my Fractal had it...with the amp cranked and singing along with the others got the sense there was something more happening...
came back wondering...plugged into my home built 5F1KT66...turned it on...the GZ34 rectifier started filling the circuit with +400VDC...the stages of the 12AX7 electron beams lit up as the big bottle KT66 also lt up...started to play on about 3 and the signals passed thru these electron fired bottles and hit the AlNiCo 12" speaker and the dance began...the rich full sound of a tube amp processing a guitar signal...rolling up the volume in stages it is like a living thing reacting to more and more excitement...the electrons in the pre and output section tubes bubbling over....creating that unmatchable overdrive then distortion...it is kinda like a living thing...dancing electrons reaction in the body of a chassis filled with real resistors and capacitors, traveling into a real speaker magnetic field, voice coil ...no silicon...no boob job here...it is the real thing!!!

A big bold living sound...each real tube amp has a distinct sound of its own because each one is a unique creation to some degree...

Well...sounds weird I know...but I swear that no Fractal sound can ultimately recreate the experience of a tube amp.

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

How about taking the modeled signal and sending it through a couple of 12ax7's and a quad of 5881's?

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[Adieu]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

How about taking the modeled signal and sending it through a couple of 12ax7's and a quad of 5881's?

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Its not about that

With near-INFINITE computing power, and huge huge high resolution precision maps of modelled gear, it COULD actually be quite cool and accurate

What we actually get, though, is more like a blurry pixellated photo on a 15yo flip phone. Of a 3d object. In bad lighting.

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Its not about that

With near-INFINITE computing power, and huge huge high resolution precision maps of modelled gear, it COULD actually be quite cool and accurate

What we actually get, though, is more like a blurry pixellated photo on a 15yo flip phone. Of a 3d object. In bad lighting.

"It's not about that"
Well, why not?

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[Adieu]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

"It's not about that"
Well, why not?

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Because the perfect modeller has a perfectly flat, 100% colorless power amp stage.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Because the perfect modeller has a perfectly flat, 100% colorless power amp stage.

I think this thread shows that there is no such thing as a perfect modeler

 

[RolanTHUNDER]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

I too am a purist and prefer/love real full on tube amps. That being said, I recently had the pleasure of working with a powered Kemper head and have to say that it is very impressive in terms of tonal purity. It will not replace my favourite real amps but it does a damn good job of sounding like them while saving space, weight and cash especially if you record or gig a lot and want convenience above all else.

Check out this demo video I did please. Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAHqPwU0IGc

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Because the perfect modeller has a perfectly flat, 100% colorless power amp stage.

Hmm. But apparently, "perfect" isn't always perfect.

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[Mincer]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Because the perfect modeller has a perfectly flat, 100% colorless power amp stage.

Power amps (especially tube ones) contribute a lot to the sound. But if you need a colorless power amp to power the modeled power amp in the modeler (how's that for a sentence?), the PowerStage 170 works well.

 

[justFred]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Power amps (especially tube ones) contribute a lot to the sound. But if you need a colorless power amp to power the modeled power amp in the modeler (how's that for a sentence?), the PowerStage 170 works well.

is that what you use for live with your Fractal? Is it stereo output so it can amplify the Fractal stereo effects? What speaker(s) do you use with it?

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Well, I was addressing the issue that some people seem to have with modelers, that being the "feel". Maybe the problem is that they are too "perfect". Coupling the digital front end with a tube power stage could be the answer. Except for that whole other issue of guitarists tending to be "conservative" (or more succinctly, hide born) and shying away from something different because that's not what their heros use.

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[Mincer]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

is that what you use for live with your Fractal? Is it stereo output so it can amplify the Fractal stereo effects? What speaker(s) do you use with it?

No, I go direct. I used to, but I got away from having speakers onstage. Now I use IEMs.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

...of guitarists tending to be "conservative" (or more succinctly, hide born) and shying away from something different because that's not what their heros use.

I think I fall into that camp.

If someone gave me a high end modeling device, I wouldn't dream of taking it to a blues jam. The sound I wanna hear in that case comes from my Super Reverb. However, if I was gonna go jam with a metal band, I think the modeler makes a lot of sense. There are a ton of different heavy gain sounds I like, and maybe I need a few good ones to pick from, depending on the drummer and the bass player, and even another guitarist.

But on the other hand, if someone gave me a Dual Rectifier or some other good metal head, I'm sure I'd be happy with it.

 

[Adieu]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Well, I was addressing the issue that some people seem to have with modelers, that being the "feel". Maybe the problem is that they are too "perfect". Coupling the digital front end with a tube power stage could be the answer. Except for that whole other issue of guitarists tending to be "conservative" (or more succinctly, hide born) and shying away from something different because that's not what their heros use.

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It could be INTERESTING, but it won't be a model no more, unless you got a good "negative" algo to block out the tube's effects (in which case, why have em at all?)

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

It could be INTERESTING, but it won't be a model no more, unless you got a good "negative" algo to block out the tube's effects (in which case, why have em at all?)

Well, if it's not a model anymore, then what exactly is it?
Ever heard of "emergent properties"? It's a fancy way of saying that a system can produce results that are greater than the sum of it's parts.
So, in the end, for myself, I don't care what it's called (aside from modeler/tube hybrid). I like the results.

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[Adieu]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Well, if it's not a model anymore, then what exactly is it?
Ever heard of "emergent properties"? It's a fancy way of saying that a system can produce results that are greater than the sum of it's parts.
So, in the end, for myself, I don't care what it's called (aside from modeler/tube hybrid). I like the results.

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A model clones the output of a modelled amp to the best of its capabilities

A tube power section CHANGES the output... bit of a conflict of interest there

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

A model clones the output of a modelled amp to the best of its capabilities

A tube power section CHANGES the output... bit of a conflict of interest there

Where you see conflict, I see potential for "magic".

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[justFred]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Where you see conflict, I see potential for "magic".

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completely agree...the amp is just in the middle of the contraption we call a rig...injecting a "raw" guitar signal direct from the pickups into a tube amp creates one kind of magic...certainly tweaking that input signal is just a likely to create magic as well...it also may be the answer to tube magic meets modeling flexibility...

 

[Adieu]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Where you see conflict, I see potential for "magic".

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Sure
It just won't perform "as labelled" anymore (if it did before adding a cranked post-gain stage)

 

[Demanic]

Re: I love tubes, but can't get over how flexible modeling has become

Sure
It just won't perform "as labelled" anymore (if it did before adding a cranked post-gain stage)

Who said anything about a "cranked" post gain stage? True, lots of people think that in order to get the best sound out of a tube amp, you have to have the power stage close to meltdown. But you will find plenty of modern tube amps that sound just fine without being driven to the edge of destruction. Not to mention the high end tube amps used by audiophiles for recording amplification. Think about what a good modeler would sound like through one of those.

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