I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

[Franknfilms]

I have a Peavey XXX 40efx. 3 channels, clean, crunch, ultra. Buffered effects loop, JJ el34 tubes, digital effects footswitchable.

This amp was a great deal, I think I got it for less than $400. 40 watts, louder than I would ever need, i'm not playing live at the moment but intent to. This amp sounds amazing clean, I'm perfectly happy with the clean sound and the reverb. The effects are pretty good too and a nice bonus for an all tube amp.

My problem lies in the heavily distorted range. While I love this amp for any moderate gain sound and clean sound, when I go all out metal it just doesn't do it for me. I have an mxr eq in the effects loop, retubed with el34s, I use a maxon od9 with keely mods to enhance the gain. Every one of those items improved the distortion greatly, but it is still lacking. I've tried every eq setting. This amp just doesn't have the full textured crunchy metal sound that I'm looking for. There is a lot of gain but it just gets muddier and muddier the more I turn it up. When the gain is too low there isn't very much presence, character or sustain. I have a variety of guitars, the emgs probably produce the best metal sound through this amp, duncans and stock pickups don't sound good at all for metal through this amp. It's not the pickups, though, it is definitely the amp.

When i play through software like Guitar Rig I hear these unbelievable amazing tones when I use the mesa style amp and a cabinet modeler. I just want to love my true tube tone as much as the computer modelers. I either need a new amp or need to rethink how I am setting up my current one.

Maybe the following things are an issue?:
-I'm using an open back combo amp instead of an amp and cabinet (I don't want amp/combo unless absolutely necessary, I like combos because an amp/cabinet is overkill for me and hard to haul around)
-Nothing short of a $1,000+ mesa boogie combo or other super expensive boutique combo can produce amazing metal distortion?
- My choice of pedals could be improved?

Now, the tough part is that I can't spend more than $400-500 bucks on an amp. I only need 40watts or so though. I need good cleans and great distortion. What other amps should I try out?

I've seen the Mesa .50 caliber combo on ebay near this price range. I've always wanted to try a peavey classic 30 to see if I can eq/boost it into a metal tone. Maybe there is a marshall combo I should try? What about those tiny amps like orange tiny terror?

Any feedback suggestions at all will be appreciated!

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Where is your master volume knob?

The full-textured thing you're describing doesn't tend to come into play until the amp is cranked up and going hard. Preamp gain on 10 just sounds buzzy and farty and weak...i tend to like the master up at least half way and the preamp gain up until it's just barely heavy enough.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Where is your master volume knob?

The full-textured thing you're describing doesn't tend to come into play until the amp is cranked up and going hard. Preamp gain on 10 just sounds buzzy and farty and weak...i tend to like the master up at least half way and the preamp gain up until it's just barely heavy enough.

Good call, that is one of the issues I forgot to mention. No master volume. Each channel has an individual volume. I would love to get one installed if that is even possible or affordable. If not, I guess I'll have to assume it sounds great cranked, I haven't had the chance to crank it up with a drummer yet, it is just in the office for now.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

okay

does each channel have individual volume and gain knobs?

because if so, the gain knob is your "preamp" volume and your volume IS your master volume

so you have TWO master volumes...one for each channel

and they need to be turned up

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Try a closed back cab.
Maybe a 4x12

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

okay

does each channel have individual volume and gain knobs?

because if so, the gain knob is your "preamp" volume and your volume IS your master volume

so you have TWO master volumes...one for each channel

and they need to be turned up

Turn it up I will when I get the opportunity. I guess it is hard to judge a tube amp at bedroom levels. If only I could cheat somehow, is that what power attenuators are for?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

yes

 

[mwalluk]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

I was never a fan of the XXX series. Not a fan of combos either, I'll use a head and 112 or 212 cab. A couple questions are; what speakers are you using? What's your EQ look like? What settings are you using? Your choice of pedals are good.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Here is a cheap attenuator that I found online
http://www.tubejuiceattenuators.com/buy2.html
Anyone have any other recommendations? The others that I found are very expensive, but maybe they are worth it?

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

I used to own a Triple XXX head; here's a few things you can try.

First, does the combo have the damping switch on the back? The head had a three-position switch for controlling speaker movement (Loose/Mid/Tight) and I found the Loose setting was the best, anything else had a small adverse effect on tone.

Second, which channel are you using for your metal tones? I always found the Ultra channel to be the most buzzy so I tended to stay away from it. The real jewel of the amp is the Crunch channel. It's got most of the gain of Ultra but is a little more refined, a little cleaner. It can still get every bit as mean though. Try plugging straight in without any of your other effects, then try hitting the front end with your Keeley OD9 as a clean boost.

Third, don't forget that the EQ on the Ultra and Crunch channels is active (I'm assuming it's the same on the combo?), meaning that at 5, any EQ knob acts as if it's on 10. Anything past the halfway point is just boosting frequencies. This means a lot of versatility, but also a lot of bad sounds if you're not careful with the EQ. Go back to the Crunch channel and play around for awhile, even if you already have.

Fourth, like Empty Pockets said each channel has the Pre and Post gains typical of Peavey's offerings. Try opening up the Volume all the way to 10 to get the power tubes ready, then adjust volume/gain with the Gain knob. It made a very slight difference on my head but it was noticeable. If it's too loud with the Volume on 10, pull it back like EP recommended.

Finally, have you always been using EL34s? I never got a chance to try them out in my head but I liked the 6L6 vibe, and I think it would be worth trying out a set before you decide to sell/trade that combo. Maybe taking out the mid bite of the EL34s will smooth everything out for you. If it doesn't work, then at least you have more tubes to throw in whatever you replace it with.

I hope one of these tidbits is helpful. Let us know how things go! If you end up getting a replacement, definitely keep a .50 Cal in mind.

 

[Koreth]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

If you're going to go for an attenuator, save up your pennies for one that isn't so cheap., like a Webber MASS or THD Hot Plate. That way, you have a nice one that you can keep for use with whatever other amplifier(s) you get in the future.

I'll second trying a different, closed back cabinet, ideally one with a different speaker than what you're using now. It is possible that all that you don't like about the tone you're getting is being caused by the speaker/cabinets natural EQ.

I do not know if this is still the case, but when I last played around with Guitar Rig, their Mesa model was based upon the Recto. That Caliber .50 isn't going to sound anything like a recto, and if I had to guess, something closer to a Mark I or II. If you love the Guitar Rig sound, and want to switch to a Mesa, go looking for a used Dual or Single Rectifier

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

I might not have to save at all, this Weber Mass is pretty cheap
http://www.thevintagesound.com/store/weber-50-watt-mini-mass-attenuator-p-360.html

Good advice on the recto vs caliber. One of these days I'll have a cabinet and amp of choice, until then I think I'll try out the attenuator. Also, I'm always on the hunt for a good 1x12 or 2x12 cabinet, that might compliment my amp better than the internal speaker.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

I was never a fan of the XXX series. Not a fan of combos either, I'll use a head and 112 or 212 cab. A couple questions are; what speakers are you using? What's your EQ look like? What settings are you using? Your choice of pedals are good.

I bought the amp used and the previous owned upgraded to another peavey speaker, I'm not sure which one. As for the EQ, I feel like I change it every day but it is usually on the ultra channel and Bass 2-3 o'clock, Mid 10, Treble 2

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

I used to own a Triple XXX head; here's a few things you can try.

First, does the combo have the damping switch on the back? The head had a three-position switch for controlling speaker movement (Loose/Mid/Tight) and I found the Loose setting was the best, anything else had a small adverse effect on tone.

Second, which channel are you using for your metal tones? I always found the Ultra channel to be the most buzzy so I tended to stay away from it. The real jewel of the amp is the Crunch channel. It's got most of the gain of Ultra but is a little more refined, a little cleaner. It can still get every bit as mean though. Try plugging straight in without any of your other effects, then try hitting the front end with your Keeley OD9 as a clean boost.

Third, don't forget that the EQ on the Ultra and Crunch channels is active (I'm assuming it's the same on the combo?), meaning that at 5, any EQ knob acts as if it's on 10. Anything past the halfway point is just boosting frequencies. This means a lot of versatility, but also a lot of bad sounds if you're not careful with the EQ. Go back to the Crunch channel and play around for awhile, even if you already have.

Fourth, like Empty Pockets said each channel has the Pre and Post gains typical of Peavey's offerings. Try opening up the Volume all the way to 10 to get the power tubes ready, then adjust volume/gain with the Gain knob. It made a very slight difference on my head but it was noticeable. If it's too loud with the Volume on 10, pull it back like EP recommended.

Finally, have you always been using EL34s? I never got a chance to try them out in my head but I liked the 6L6 vibe, and I think it would be worth trying out a set before you decide to sell/trade that combo. Maybe taking out the mid bite of the EL34s will smooth everything out for you. If it doesn't work, then at least you have more tubes to throw in whatever you replace it with.

I hope one of these tidbits is helpful. Let us know how things go! If you end up getting a replacement, definitely keep a .50 Cal in mind.

I believe it is on loose, I'll double check, but that is where i usually have it.

I probably crank the eq too much on the ultra channel, I'll keep that in mind. Great advice. As for the crunch channel, I never felt that it had any gain at all but i've also never tried cranking the volumes first and then the gain, I'll play with that and see what happens.

I replaced the 6l6s with El34s, I didn't notice much of a change in tone in high gain but I think the clean sound has a little more character now. The good thing (I think) is that this amp doesn't need rebiasing for El34s to 6L6 so when i need a tube change I might pop in some 6L6s again.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

you're usually playing at bedroom volumes on the ultra channel with the gain cranked up

your preamp is all saturated and buzzy and your poweramp is working to keep it quieter. You'll sound heavier if you try using less gain.

Dial in as heavy a tone as possible using as little gain as possible on the crunch channel. I bet it'll sound better.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

you're usually playing at bedroom volumes on the ultra channel with the gain cranked up

your preamp is all saturated and buzzy and your poweramp is working to keep it quieter. You'll sound heavier if you try using less gain.

Dial in as heavy a tone as possible using as little gain as possible on the crunch channel. I bet it'll sound better.

Will do next time I play, I'll reply with the results after I have a chance to try this out

 

[apj]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

whenever I've played XXX's they always seemed inherently buzzy to me, but it sounds like you're describing an issue of too much gain more than anything. Turn the gain down, both the XXX and 5150 have more gain than you could ever need. Really, unless you are playing lead exclusively, I would never have gain past 6 or 7 even for extreme metal. As well, like everyone else was saying, your poweramp tone is what your getting from your amp sim software that you like. Turn the amp up and the preamp down a bit

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Any modern sounding high gain amp with have some fizz, even the more expensive stuff...its part of the sound and the circuit, and not really a bad thing depending on how it fits in the mix both live and recorded.

Are you sure the amp is working correctly? I have a XXX 212 combo, the only thing that has been changed on it are the speakers (V30s - I bought it like that), I can't imagine it would be that much different other than 2x12 open back vs 1x12 open back.

I have never had to turn the gain past noon to get saturation beyond what I am shooting for, it does AJFA all day with the gain at 10:30 with a typical JB loaded superstrat (no boosts or pedals needed). It is, by far, the highest gain amp I have ever run into.

While it does have a sound that is unique and about half way between a Mesa and Marshall, I have always thought it is a very good sounding amp, especially for heavier stuff and I have always thought the cleans were average at best. It is a different flavor than something like a Recto, but I think it stands on its own very well, no slouch of an amp at all.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

Dont waste your money on an attenuator. Speakers are as much a part of your sound as any other part of the the chain. Unfortunately you need to turn up the master and have the speakers humming.
I think you rely too much on gain to get the sound. You dont need any pedals, nor an eq.
Boosting the bottom and top ends on an eq is only really helpful at very low levels. Our ears are attuned to midranges because that makes us sensitive to human speech - at speaking levels. So at lower volumes we naturally tend to hear the midrange. As you turn up the master, you will get more of the bass (and more prercieved bass) you seem to be after. Scooped eq sounds tent to get flabby in the bass and fuzzy on the top with a general thin sound due to the lack of mids when you turn an amp up. Take it out of your loop.
Dont worry about your od9 either - except for leads. They trim off a lot of bass. The extra gain that you had it modded for is not the problem. Even modified tube screamers are designed as a dirty mid boost - which works great for thickening up single notes higher up the neck, but not so well for low down chunk.
Bear in mind that if you eq your amp for a really dirty, chunky, heavy style of sound for low down riffage, you will find that that tone does not always sound good for leads. it is often thin and weedy. Set your other channels for that - and boost the mids. If you really need it then use your od9 - but really for single note solos only.
Okay - having said all that there are some other things that malke a difference to any amp:
1. CLosed back cabs sound meatier and heavier than open.
2. Some speakers just dont have much bottom end.
3. Heads are more resistant to vibration than combos.
4. Some amps are built for a market sector rather than being built with uncompromising quality in every part of their construction.
Now your amp falls into all 4 of these categories to one extent or another - however you can maximize the fat sound you get out of it by turning it up a bit in the master and reducing your reliance on preamp and pre-preamp gain. Even jcm marshalls and dumbles sound buzzy if the power amp is not at least running halfway.
Having said all that - the dc5 you mentioned sounds massive for a 1x12 combo if you decide to jump ship - but it still needs to be turned up to around 4 or more on either channel on the master side. it is a very loud 50watt amp!
A peavey classic will not even get you close to the sounds you mentioned.
NOw if all this talk about volume is just impractical for your home practice - just get an inexpensive practice amp like a spider or whatever sounds passable to you at lower levels, and keep your xxx for when you are in a rehearsal studio jamming with a band.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: I need a new amp, XXX doesn't cut it

^^ Extremely informative as far as general amp info goes.

I never really GAS'd for a XXX but nobody can say they're bad amps. You've got a Fendery clean, a Marshally crunch, and a super-hi-gain Ultra channel for solos. Heavier tones were and are produced on amps with a lot less gain on tap. I've been playing metal out of my 68 Fender Bassman since i was 16...it's gotta be turned up past 6 and have a decent overdrive or distortion in front of it, but IT CAN DO IT...

There's no reason your amp can't sound just as heavy if not heavier...you just gotta give those power tubes a little room to breathe. If ya can't do that, it's like 175 said up there -- you need a smaller practice amp.