I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

[UberMetalDood]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I feel exactly the same way.
I have an Eleven Rack (good for the price tag) and was saving up for the AXE-FX II.


Until I bought a Mesa Mark V head instead. :banana:

I was always missing the tube warmth with the 11R and playing through a powered monitor is not
very inspiring. My drummer even commented on how warm the amp sounded.....the key player said it was the best sound I ever had. They never said that about the Eleven Rack.

I know the AXE II sounds better than the Eleven Rack, but I can get a LOT of different sounds with the Mark V along with some dirt/OD pedals. My Eleven Rack has been retired as my computer sound card and modeler to record. My Mark V is what I gig with. No more modelers live.

Yeah the Mark V is awesome. I had the combo a while back. It does everything from the sweetest tones to agonizing death metal. I have to say though, after having had an Eleven Rack and playing through two versions of the AxeFX, I wouldn't say that the AxeFX is that much better. The Eleven Rack and AxeFX both sound very warm, but when playing live through a PA or something, it's still not like a tube amp. I would disagree to a certain extent that the AxeFX sounds much better than the Eleven Rack. Overall it has a little better sounding amp models, but the Eleven Rack can get some great sounds. For recording, they're awesome. For live sound, neither would do it for me.

 

[scorch]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

The last amp I bought before I went to an Axe FX was a Mesa Mk V. In fact, I used the Mk V power amp for two months to power to Axe FX Ultra.

Fast forward three years, it's very liberating carrying all your gear with one trip into a gig. Having 113 amps ( and counting) and getting the best tone I've gotten in the nearly forty years I've been playing.

I don't do metal. All of the tones I go for is clean to lo-mid gain. This thing has completely cured ALL my amp and dirt-pedal gas.

Oh, and updates are often and free. And usually comes with several new amp models.

I know how much they cost. I've bought two (Ultra then Axe II). Absolutely the best gear purchase I have made in my life.

Headphones, FRFR, tube power amp into guitar cabs, straight into computer with USB for DEAD quiet recording, acoustic guitar and bass sound amazing with it , etc.

I just turned sixty. I am definately old-school in my tones but I have seen the future, and it is good!

 

[gvis]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

Eventually I want to address the amps in my dual amp setup and also expand my pedals, but before I go that route I keep thinking about the Axe route.

For those of you who use it and like it, are you running through a PA type setup or through the clean channel of an amp to a standard guitar cab? If amp/cab, tube or ss?

I'm not so sure I'd be into the cab models as much as the amp models, but maybe both are useful and needed? After reading the manual awhile back, it appears you can turn off the cabs and use just the amps. I'm guessing running it through a tube amp and cab would color the model's base tone more than the more neutral eq of a PA setup, but how much and good or bad, or just...different in an ok way?

If it's not a dramatic difference, it seems like having the option to use either the models or amp/pedals (bypass the axe) would be nice. I don't think my goal would be to exactly nail a particular amp/cab with the models but instead to get a controllable/saveable variety without investing in too many pedals.

And I like the idea of mutiple clean models. With an amp/pedal setup, I'm basically just getting different dirt tonal options, and clean boosting isn't really getting me into some other clena voice.

I'm growing to really like this one clean model on my mustang practive amp (I know, different league). Having so many such clean options in the Axe sounds nice.

So, mix them or ditch the amps/cabs and go all Axe/PA? Guess I could still save the amps/cabs and keep that setup separate.

Lol...the plan doesn't materialize for another year, so I have time. But it's fun to plan and dream.

 

[gvis]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

tube power amp into guitar cabs

Didn't catch this; this may have answered my question, but anyone else happy running it through normal tube amps and cabs?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

If that is going to be the future....I'll stop play electric guitar when my last tube dies...

 

[LesStrat]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I don't have the AXE FX, but I've been playing PODs direct to the PA for years. At church we have the Aviom monitoring system; in the band, I use a JBL EON 15 monitor. Sometimes I'll use a Hartke B30 as an additional "boost" for stage monitoring. If we can get the monitors set well, though, I use only the JBL.

 

[dystrust]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

There are plenty of videos of this, but I really would like to know if the Line 6 Pod HD Pro could match the Axe FX II.

The Fractal is just legendary now for not only destroying any need for a head/cab configuration (aka back breaking config), as well as messy pedal boards. I just watched rig videos for Neal Schon, Steve Vai, and DJ Ashba raving about how the system has just made their lives so much easier.

For us average Joes who aren't touring the world however, I'm wondering if the Line 6 is just as good. It's $1500 less (street), and the pod has been dominating the Youtube/bedroom riffer market.

I've yet to play a POD HD, but the AxeFX Ultra I played was light years ahead of everything else Line6 I've had the chance to play or hear. The best part for me was that the Axe responded and felt like an amp; volume knob, picking dynamics, and everything else. I haven't heard any other modeler capable of that. If it weren't for the extremely high price of entry and the fact that it's a paperweight if anything goes wrong, I'd have bought one years ago.

 

[dominus]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I've yet to play a POD HD, but the AxeFX Ultra I played was light years ahead of everything else Line6 I've had the chance to play or hear. The best part for me was that the Axe responded and felt like an amp; volume knob, picking dynamics, and everything else. I haven't heard any other modeler capable of that. If it weren't for the extremely high price of entry and the fact that it's a paperweight if anything goes wrong, I'd have bought one years ago.

The HD500 is a good unit, but it really didn't blow me away, so I ended up selling it. If they update the POD Farm software to have the HD amps I'll upgrade.

 

[everdrone]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

the technology will be better in 10 years, and hopefully I will have saved up to buy it then

today, tube amps rule! tommorrow, crazy new fangled awesomeness

 

[aleclee]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

For those of you who use it and like it, are you running through a PA type setup or through the clean channel of an amp to a standard guitar cab? If amp/cab, tube or ss?

I run through a PA-type setup. For home use, I run it through some Mackie monitors and with a band I break out a couple of QSC K8s. My current band has me run direct to FOH so the AxeFx makes things easy peasy in that respect. The QSCs can definitely carry a stage, though.

I'm not so sure I'd be into the cab models as much as the amp models, but maybe both are useful and needed? After reading the manual awhile back, it appears you can turn off the cabs and use just the amps. I'm guessing running it through a tube amp and cab would color the model's base tone more than the more neutral eq of a PA setup, but how much and good or bad, or just...different in an ok way?

It all depends on what you want. In the four years I've been doing the AxeFx thing, I didn't go with the power amp & guitar cab approach for very long (maybe a couple months). Part of that was because I needed low/zero volume because I had a small kid and most of my rawk time came during his naps or after his bedtime but a big part of it was because I wanted the versatility offered by full range speakers.

If you're running through 12" guitar speakers, they color the sound a lot. Just as a "for example", let's say you're playing through an uncolored power amp and Marshall 1960. Obviously, your Marshall tones will be most convincing. Another potential benefit is that you'll get that visceral "thump" that only a 4x12 can provide. On the other hand, your Fender, Vox, Mesa, or acoustic tones will suffer because they're all being colored by that Marshall cab. I'm not saying they'll sound bad, just less convincing.

Another downside of most guitar cabs is directionality. It's often not very pleasant to be on-axis with a guitar speaker. Being "in the beam" is pretty hard on the ears. On the other hand, the guitar is hard to hear if you're too far off-axis. While there are some things you can do to reduce the beaming effect of guitar speakers, a PA-style speaker will give you better coverage and more consistent tone on/off axis.

Ultimately, it comes down to your needs and tastes. I know guys who love their modelers through power amps and guitar cabs and I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. Some folks want to hear everything with that one cab's sonic fingerprint. Others want the thump of a 4x12. I suspect a few just can't accept the aesthetics of using PA gear as backline.

My last few auditions have been kind of amusing when I walk in with a couple of powered speakers that weigh less that 30 lbs each. "Are we gonna be able to hear you?" was pretty common. By the end of the audition, not only were my guitar sounds very audible (and complemented by the band), my bandmates were jealous about how compact and portable my rig is.

Horses for courses but that's why I chose mine.

 

[gvis]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

Thanks Aleclee! That was very helpful and makes sense. Since I already have a decent amount of gear, I guess an option would be to start by running the Axe through it. Eventually we'll be adding a small PA setup anyway to our basement setup and could test running it through that at that time.

When the time comes next year, it will be a tough decision whether to replace one of my single channel 60 watters with a dual channel amp that has better high gain options and add more pedals, or run an axe through my existing fender voiced one with the better, more nuetral clean channel.

And maybe the longer I wait the better the axe gets...lol...and it could be longer than I think, because every year I come back to this axe dilema.

 

[sosomething]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

The real future of modeling hasn't been realized yet.

Modeling won't truly be ready to replace analog amplification until they stop trying to model the tones and start modeling the circuits.

I'll be willing to drop serious coin on a modeler when ones comes out that isn't just a collection of engineer's impressions of what a tube amp sounds like, but is instead a device that models accurate digital representations of all the different capacitors, filter caps, tubes, transformers, etc. that are used in various amp designs. Different models would literally be different circuits, accurate to how they behave under different loads and temperatures because each component is modeled meticulously. That way, all the amp controls would react like they actually do on the real thing. Turning up the volume would yield tube sag.

Beyond that, the normal tone editor tool could also come paired with a modding / amp building tool where you could take an existing circuit model and do things like change out the tubes or run it on 1/2 power, etc. Perfect circuit modeling would let the sound behave accurately under almost any condition. Want to run a Marshall Major on EL84s? No problem.

It would also be infinitely expandable, because you could design your own circuits, essentially inventing completely new amps yourself. All the components would be available - all you need to do is open up a "new" circuit board, drop in components, and connect them. The user community would be teeming with never-before-heard amp circuits much like the Kemper community trades profiles of existing amps today.

Pedals would be no different. Want to mod your TS9? No problem. Want to design something totally new? Go for it.

As it gained momentum, the technology could be used to create models of just about any analog audio device. Studio applications would abound. Analog synths. Organs. Old-school mixing boards. The list goes on.

Any users who don't want to dig that deep will be fine, because the device will come with insanely-accurate models of all the usual suspects, and they'd still get to enjoy the best modeling ever without ever having to go under the hood.

It's ambitious, but that's my vision of the future of modeling.

 

[scorch]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

Modeling won't truly be ready to replace analog amplification until they stop trying to model the tones and start modeling the circuits.

That is precisely what Cliff Chase does with the Axe FX. He models the complete circuit. All tube parameters, Transformer parameters, power supply, etc. That is why it sounds so superior to other modelers. (Yes, I've used Boss GTxx, Line 6, Eleven rack, etc.) Plus, the power of the DSP chips he uses allows much higher resolution than others.

To add to the question of FRFR or tube amp & cabs. I have both and use both. I have two K12's and a Fryette 2/50/2 stereo tube amp and two 2x12 cabs. Both sound great but different. I too had trouble giving up tubes in the beginning. I needed that crutch. But as time has gone on I have come to prefer the wider frequency range of the FRFR. When I play through cabs I miss the real high end shimmer and 'glass' I get with full-range.

The best is both together - sounds utterly huge. The K12's much tighter thumping lows and chime and the middle 'haze' and crunch of the cabs is tonal bliss. But I don't gig that way very often.

For acoustic and bass - turn off the cabs. They sound bad through guitar cabs.

 

[sosomething]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

That is precisely what Cliff Chase does with the Axe FX. He models the complete circuit. All tube parameters, Transformer parameters, power supply, etc. That is why it sounds so superior to other modelers. (Yes, I've used Boss GTxx, Line 6, Eleven rack, etc.) Plus, the power of the DSP chips he uses allows much higher resolution than others.

What, what? Really?

That's what the Axe FX - a circuit modeler?

So the knobs and stuff react in the models the same way they do on the face of the actual amp?

 

[everdrone]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I run through a PA-type setup. For home use, I run it through some Mackie monitors and with a band I break out a couple of QSC K8s. My current band has me run direct to FOH so the AxeFx makes things easy peasy in that respect. The QSCs can definitely carry a stage, though.

It all depends on what you want. In the four years I've been doing the AxeFx thing, I didn't go with the power amp & guitar cab approach for very long (maybe a couple months). Part of that was because I needed low/zero volume because I had a small kid and most of my rawk time came during his naps or after his bedtime but a big part of it was because I wanted the versatility offered by full range speakers.

If you're running through 12" guitar speakers, they color the sound a lot. Just as a "for example", let's say you're playing through an uncolored power amp and Marshall 1960. Obviously, your Marshall tones will be most convincing. Another potential benefit is that you'll get that visceral "thump" that only a 4x12 can provide. On the other hand, your Fender, Vox, Mesa, or acoustic tones will suffer because they're all being colored by that Marshall cab. I'm not saying they'll sound bad, just less convincing.

Another downside of most guitar cabs is directionality. It's often not very pleasant to be on-axis with a guitar speaker. Being "in the beam" is pretty hard on the ears. On the other hand, the guitar is hard to hear if you're too far off-axis. While there are some things you can do to reduce the beaming effect of guitar speakers, a PA-style speaker will give you better coverage and more consistent tone on/off axis.

Ultimately, it comes down to your needs and tastes. I know guys who love their modelers through power amps and guitar cabs and I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. Some folks want to hear everything with that one cab's sonic fingerprint. Others want the thump of a 4x12. I suspect a few just can't accept the aesthetics of using PA gear as backline.

My last few auditions have been kind of amusing when I walk in with a couple of powered speakers that weigh less that 30 lbs each. "Are we gonna be able to hear you?" was pretty common. By the end of the audition, not only were my guitar sounds very audible (and complemented by the band), my bandmates were jealous about how compact and portable my rig is.

Horses for courses but that's why I chose mine.

very cool! what 30 pound speakers do you use?

 

[Silver]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

What, what? Really?

That's what the Axe FX - a circuit modeler?

So the knobs and stuff react in the models the same way they do on the face of the actual amp?

He's right. The axe fx models the circuits.

You can even already do with it, most of what you describe... switching out parts and changing the values of various capacitors and resistors.

 

[aleclee]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

very cool! what 30 pound speakers do you use?

QSC K8. I'm planning on upsizing a bit to a single Atomic CLR as soon as my name comes up on the wait list. Nothing wrong with the QSC but my buddy has a CLR and finds it a significant upgrade.

 

[sosomething]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

He's right. The axe fx models the circuits.

You can even already do with it, most of what you describe... switching out parts and changing the values of various capacitors and resistors.

Well punch my ticket.

I did not realize that.

That is awesome.

I was thinking I wanted a Kemper, but maybe what I really should be looking at is an AxeFX II.

Different reasons to look at both, for my applications.

 

[B2D]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I don't think an AFX is something I could just demo in a store and buy. I'd need to take it home and play with it for a long time, gig with it, and record with it. In short I'd like to live with one for a while. But man that initial investment is a good bit of coin. If it truly can replace an amp head and pedals, then it would be worth it. On paper, it does... in practice, that's something else.

 

[dominus]

Re: I never knew a AXE FX could sound like this

I don't think an AFX is something I could just demo in a store and buy. I'd need to take it home and play with it for a long time, gig with it, and record with it. In short I'd like to live with one for a while. But man that initial investment is a good bit of coin. If it truly can replace an amp head and pedals, then it would be worth it. On paper, it does... in practice, that's something else.

Pick up a used one, try it for a month, then resell it. You might get back every cent you put in it.