I officially don't get it.

misterwhizzy

Well-known member
As long as I've been a member here, all I've ever read from anyone who's not a through-and-through metalhead is that actives are sterile, cold, boring, etc. Pick your word for uninspired.

Then I got a call from my good friend John Jolly, as I'd believe a lot of you also have. He said, "Hey, man, have you tried these f***in' d**n Blackouts, man?" Or something like that. He told me, "I don't want to go sayin' they're the cat's meow, or anything, but..." So I started looking around. I browsed eBay and Craigslist, and I talked to Jolly again, and I told him I'd find a set to put in my Les Paul.

I hadn't even had the bug to change my tone, except I was looking for something with a little more fullness than the Crazy 8. It was so close to being what I wanted, but it didn't quite have the low-mid chunk I wanted to hear with palm mutes. And this is really just where the story begins.

I finally ordered a set on eBay. It came with short-shaft pots, which wouldn't fit in the Les Paul. And there were only two of them. So I ordered a full set of four, and when they arrived I started the wiring. I got everything wired up and went to plug it in. Nothing. I went over and over and over that diagram, and I'd work about half an hour for a week, and I still couldn't get it right. I measured one of the pots closed, halfway open, and fully open, and I measured no resistance across any of the lugs. It was either bad, or I had burned it out. At that point, I decided to take it from the top again.

After I received another set of pots, I pulled everything out all the way to the switch, and I rewired it all again. In the midst of this, I did have output at some points. I'd have the plate off, the battery hanging out, and I'd get something to come out, but it was weak and crackly. I finally gave up and took it to Infinity Guitars in Houston. Randy worked through it with me until we finally figured out that my switch has the hot and ground backwards.

Now it's perfect, and that brings me to my original point. The Blackouts are loud. They're high output in the truest sense of the words. But that doesn't mean they lack dynamics. That doesn't mean they won't clean up with the volume rolled back. That doesn't mean you can't go from clean to mean with the flick of a switch. I don't understand the hatred, and I honestly believe a lot of it comes from anonymous internet types who are repeating things they read online while wording them differently enough that it sounds like it's an original thought. You want a higher post count? Good for you.

That being said, I've never played EMGs, so I'm not going to make the comparison here. Blackouts just sound gigantic. They're fairly balanced, if a bit bass heavy in the bridge. The focus is more lower-mid based than the Custom 8 or Crazy 8 that were in there before, and I think that contributes to the bigger sound. That and the higher output. I'm still trying to get the neck to exactly the right height, because the D and G strings drive the amp a little harder than I'd like. I definitely would not call the neck cleans glassy; I think warm is a better word. But both positions stay crystal clear through the entire gain range and volume knob travel. Honestly, the reason I'd been putting things off so long is the weirdness of having a battery in my guitar and the necessity of changing out all the pots for something I wasn't sure about.

But they're awesome, and they'll stick around.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

cold, sterile and boring is a way of playing.
A good player will sound expressive using any pickups.
The trick is to use the set that suits the individual player.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I think the EMG brush tars a lot of high output pickups.

Needless to say, I don't go for high output myself, as I prefer low output tones (and low drive). Lowering the pickup volume changes the way the pickup responds from a loading point of view - as in a high output pickup with the vol at 5 say doesn't sound like a low output pickup full up.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

Some of this question comes down to listening.

If you have spent a lot of time listening to any particular sort of guitar pickup, changing to a guitar with unfamiliar pickups will sound "wrong".

e.g. After passive, high output humbuckers, vintage style single coils will sound "thin" and "weak". Active pickups will sound bright and the dynamic response will be noticeably different. The player may have to - shock, horror - adjust to these differences.

I do not see active versus passive as a competition. Sometimes, in a specific musical context, one type sounds more appropriate than the other. Often, either would do.

Between the main brands, I detect some differences and have arrived at some preferences. My LTD EC-401w came stock with EMG-81/-60 pickups. Over the years, I have experimented with -85, -H, -HA, -85X, -81X, -60X, Live Wire Classic II and AHB-2 pickups. All of these have their good and bad points. The Duncans and EMG-X models have better dynamic responses but, through highly saturated valve amplification, this is of little importance.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

ive been using a set of blackout singles in a strat for a while now and they sound really good. no they dont sound as good as surfers but they sound just fine. it sounds like a strat. the only person that might notice a difference besides me is another tone junkie guitar player.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

A great deal of peoples opinions of active pickups come from a flawed perception. Usually the perception is that the preamp circuitry is a low fidelity layer of abstraction that somehow robs tone or its sole purpose is to provide high output devoid of any nuance. After all if you have a good sounding guitar you don't want to ruin it with some loud low fidelity active preamp circuit who's only purpose in life is to deliver a high output distorted signal. A preamp that will violate the gentle sensibilities of your classic amplifier and cause it to make vulgar unnatural noises.
 
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Re: I officially don't get it.

Fwiw, the whole point of the Blackouts was to restore some organic quality to active pickups.

I haven't used them in forever, but I love EMG 81s for high gain. They wouldn't be my go-to for blues or country, but neither would any hot passive pickup. I don't think they sound sterile, but they certainly have their own thing.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

My teacher used for a while EMGs in his guitar to play jazz, and he said they are great for that 'cause of the definition they have, that allows you to play a lot with volume and tone without being too muddy. I never heard actives in that context, so it's only hearsay, but I think it's a thing to try... maybe when I'll buy a couple of Blackouts.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I have not tried the SD Blackouts; however, my experience thus far in life is that I do not like Active at all. I tried several EMGs and Ibanez versions but didn't care for them. In my mind Actives sound "synthetic" while my Alnico V & Ceramic Passives sound "organic". I've always thought of the Actives as being too clean, at least that's how they react when I play them. I did like a set of Active EMGs in a Spector bass my dad has, but as of yet I've never used a set of Actives in a guitar that sounded right with my playing.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

Another case of people talking about pickups that are highly associated with specific genres, and even particular amps, without mentioning what genre they play or what amps they use. People come to expect certain sounds with certain genres, so there's the question of how active pickups relate to specific expectations, and not so much with others.
 
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Re: I officially don't get it.

Yeah Jolly has told me about how great the blackouts are too, and I figure if a guy like him (as opposed to a stereotypical EMG user) raves about them that much, they must be awesome.

How do you think they'd work in a baritone? (PRS Mushok fwiw)
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

EMGs in particular do not have a traditional resonance peak at a filter cutoff frequency like normal pickups do. Not saying that makes them sound bad, but it is a real difference in sound and feel, and since EMGs are very popular a lot of people judge all actives by it. There is nothing that keeps you from making a pickup from normal-ish coils and slam in a preamp with appropriate load capacitance and input impedance and that does have a traditional resonance peak.

Preamps themselves are fuzzy. In the bass world I have preamps that sound differently even with EQ neutral and me measuring frequency response verifying that it is flat. I didn't have to time digging into it, maybe the one I'm thinking of is just broken in some interesting way (it also buzzes in ways it shouldn't in a given situation). But either way, there is opportunity to screw up here even if your base pickup is OK.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

Oh, do I answer the questions of useful members or take the bait? I guess both, and it'll make me hate myself and keep this thread on the front page for weeks.

So what's my ideal tone? I guess something along the lines of Rust in Peace to Youthanasia era Megadeth. Nothing terribly modern sounding. No Amon Amarth or Meshuggah. I pretty much hate those tones. They don't sound musical to me. Something with a big, thick crunch in the mids. I usually play cleans on the neck with the volume rolled way back and the treble way up. No amp settings change, especially since it's a single-channel amp. I don't even turn off the overdrive, most of the time, and the amp still usually cleans up to a manageable clean tone.

Jordan, I have no idea how it would sound in a baritone. I get the feeling you'd need a high-powered amp to keep it tight, because I had to cut the depth WAY down to keep it from getting boomy in the bridge. But it's a 20-watt amp through a 2x12. What do I expect? I'll have to go back to trolling Craigslist to find that mic I almost had before i can post anything, but in the end, it's as much about feel as anything else, and no clip will impart that to the listener. I guess I should also note that mid-neck single-string runs are so much clearer than any passive I've played. It's how I feel when I play through a Fryette, with nowhere to hide, nothing mushing out. Everything you do right sounds great, and there's no missing anything you've done wrong.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I've had several livewire and blackout pickups and enjoyed all of them. I would love to add some Blackout singles or Livewire Classic II singles to a strat in the near future. If I wasn't so happy with my current pickups I might do it now...
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

When I was beginning, I honestly believed that EMGs were sterile and whatnot.
Then I realized I'd never played the damn things. Still haven't. But I'm willing to bet they can sound non-sterile, and dynamic, etc.

Too much crap information around, like people who say all Epiphones are crap. Just nonsense.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I love the blackouts. Top end is nice and fat. Kind of clicky. Perfect for a brighter amp. I loved playing them through my old Vox. Pretty sure they're still in my buddy's Schecter. Emg 81/60s aren't bad, especially the 60. I never really touch my tone pots with either set though. Very plug and play types of stuff.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I have a set of the old Livewire II single coils and they are without a doubt the best sounding single coils I have played. I have EMG's in the same guitar and they don't sound as lively or resonant.
 
Re: I officially don't get it.

I play multiple styles of music...you can't classify what all I play with a specific genre. I don't like how Actives sound and react when I play them just like I don't like how Alnico II's sound and react when I play them. All of the pickups I currently use have either an Alnico V or a Ceramic magnet in it. There are many guitar players who get awesome tone with Actives and Alnico IIs but they just don't work for me.

As far as style is concerned I really don't think you can equate one type of pickup for one genre of music. My dad's electric style is very similar to mine (he taught me) but the guitars with Alnico V's that I've given him he has replaced with Active EMGs. Also, I would argue that a high out put pickup such as the Dimebucker would be perfect for Jazz because of how pristine and articulate it is (IMO) but most people associate it with Metal.
 
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