A few weeks ago I bought a JCM 800 4212 combo. It had a few problems so I took it right back to the shop to have it retubed with EL34's and cheked out. Anyway, I got the amp back yesterday and I noticed it sounds horrible at bedroom level. I cranked it up for a few minutes (before the neighbors could complain)and it was a totally different beast. It's got a master volume, so I figured it should have the same great tone at any volume. Do Marshall's have to be played loud to sound good?
I think I hate my Marshall
- Thread starter iceman79
- Start date
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Yep, an attenuator would solve that problem. Tube amps in general need to be opened up to sound good. I love the Weber Mass I have.
Yep, an attenuator would solve that problem. Tube amps in general need to be opened up to sound good. I love the Weber Mass I have.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Pretty much any tube amp does. They'll sound OK with the MV down low but they really give out the goods when turned up. You shouldn't have to go past 3 really to get a good tone out of it. And the neighbors may not even hear it at that level.
Pretty much any tube amp does. They'll sound OK with the MV down low but they really give out the goods when turned up. You shouldn't have to go past 3 really to get a good tone out of it. And the neighbors may not even hear it at that level.
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Gotta crank em up and move some air!
Gotta crank em up and move some air!
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
It may not be biased right???.. but Marshalls sound "lazy" at bedroom levels regardless. Ask em how they biased the amp though.
It may not be biased right???.. but Marshalls sound "lazy" at bedroom levels regardless. Ask em how they biased the amp though.
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
^^^ What he said.
I also used to have a JCM 800 2x12 combo and it was tough to use without an attenuator because it seemed by the time the sound was REALLY cooking everyone in the damn building had yelled at me to turn it down or God help them.
God didn't help 'em but my Dr. Z attenuator sure does.
Bottom line. Tube amps (master volume or not) need to be cranked up to about 5-7 and cooking (I find most tube amps sound better after having been played for 20-30 mins) before they'll give up the goods. Master volume controls the power amp section. Pre volume controls the preamp gain/distortion. The power amp needs to be turned UP to sound like you like.
My Legacy is retardedly loud and I wouldnt even think about even TRYING to play it at bedroom level. That's what my POD is for. You don't take and F1 race car and drive it to the grocery store once a week.
Geddit?
^^^ What he said.
I also used to have a JCM 800 2x12 combo and it was tough to use without an attenuator because it seemed by the time the sound was REALLY cooking everyone in the damn building had yelled at me to turn it down or God help them.
God didn't help 'em but my Dr. Z attenuator sure does.
Bottom line. Tube amps (master volume or not) need to be cranked up to about 5-7 and cooking (I find most tube amps sound better after having been played for 20-30 mins) before they'll give up the goods. Master volume controls the power amp section. Pre volume controls the preamp gain/distortion. The power amp needs to be turned UP to sound like you like.
My Legacy is retardedly loud and I wouldnt even think about even TRYING to play it at bedroom level. That's what my POD is for. You don't take and F1 race car and drive it to the grocery store once a week.
Geddit?
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
A speaker being pushed is another element in the chain of how a cranked amp can sound good. The problem would be far from "solved." It may make it considerably better, but there's NOTHING like the right amount of push on a good speaker to add to the mix.
kevlar3000 said:
A speaker being pushed is another element in the chain of how a cranked amp can sound good. The problem would be far from "solved." It may make it considerably better, but there's NOTHING like the right amount of push on a good speaker to add to the mix.
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
^^^ ALSO true! Thanks for reminding me of that.
Attenuators aren't for turning your beast of a tube amp into a tame little bedroom lapdog. They're for getting satisfying tone at a level that wont cause club owners and bartenders to yell at you.
^^^ ALSO true! Thanks for reminding me of that.
Attenuators aren't for turning your beast of a tube amp into a tame little bedroom lapdog. They're for getting satisfying tone at a level that wont cause club owners and bartenders to yell at you.
DesertRose
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
yeah, alotta people are telling me to crank it up and the tube amp will sound good. Even in bedroom practice I find that the sound of the Marshall is fabulous, especially the JCM 900s. I haven't played in a gig before, perhaps small audit ones without cranking the amp up.
yeah, alotta people are telling me to crank it up and the tube amp will sound good. Even in bedroom practice I find that the sound of the Marshall is fabulous, especially the JCM 900s. I haven't played in a gig before, perhaps small audit ones without cranking the amp up.
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
I have the same trouble with my Peavey Classic series amps... hate them at low volumes but at high volumes i do like them!
But i did have a tech tell me to stay away from any 800 combos that have only one imput jack... He said they never seem to sound right for whatever the reason...
iceman79 said:
I have the same trouble with my Peavey Classic series amps... hate them at low volumes but at high volumes i do like them!
But i did have a tech tell me to stay away from any 800 combos that have only one imput jack... He said they never seem to sound right for whatever the reason...
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Hey, there must be at least one reason a tube snob like me would use a Valvetronix head/cab at home. My tube amps would turn my walls into baby powder, if I turned them up to the point where I love the tone.
Hey, there must be at least one reason a tube snob like me would use a Valvetronix head/cab at home. My tube amps would turn my walls into baby powder, if I turned them up to the point where I love the tone.
tone?
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
i totally agree with what everyone is saying here.
you just have to crank it to get a great sound.
especially the old the Marshall it seems to me.
i recently went to London and was gonna buy a JMP 78' but it sounded SS at low volumes. when i cranked it past 5 it was there but how the heck was i supposed to use that in the house!??
on the other hand more modern amps such as Bogner ( Gearjoneser says so) VHT, with more complex preamps can get better tones low.
this also why the Deliverance i tried sounded so much better to me.
I long time ago i was borrowing a JCM800 and it was soundint fizzy at low volumes. so i looked it up and found a super simple mod to do. i cut out two bright caps that make the sound brighter at lower volumes. this actually helped alot and also made the master volume on the amp more smooth, that is it didnt have the previous 'jump' in volume.
the newer Marshalls however that i have heard sound better low. but i think they sound crappy in general.
i have never tried an attenuator but i have heard the old SS jcm800 versions ( Gearjoneser had one a bit ago) and they sound great at bedroom levels. just like a cranked jcm800. well almost!
i totally agree with what everyone is saying here.
you just have to crank it to get a great sound.
especially the old the Marshall it seems to me.
i recently went to London and was gonna buy a JMP 78' but it sounded SS at low volumes. when i cranked it past 5 it was there but how the heck was i supposed to use that in the house!??
on the other hand more modern amps such as Bogner ( Gearjoneser says so) VHT, with more complex preamps can get better tones low.
this also why the Deliverance i tried sounded so much better to me.
I long time ago i was borrowing a JCM800 and it was soundint fizzy at low volumes. so i looked it up and found a super simple mod to do. i cut out two bright caps that make the sound brighter at lower volumes. this actually helped alot and also made the master volume on the amp more smooth, that is it didnt have the previous 'jump' in volume.
the newer Marshalls however that i have heard sound better low. but i think they sound crappy in general.
i have never tried an attenuator but i have heard the old SS jcm800 versions ( Gearjoneser had one a bit ago) and they sound great at bedroom levels. just like a cranked jcm800. well almost!
tone?
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
almost forgot to say, that there is nothing wrong with SS amps. some of them are actually really good.
i think that there are good SS and good tube amps. just because it is tube doesnt mean it is good sounding.
i just think that too many of us have got caught in the tube amp thingy and it doesnt really apply to all.
yes overall they do sound better than SS.
but for someone in bedroom which then has to get a good cab, then an attenuator etc... maybe sometimes a SS amp is a better deal.
i remember a friend of mine that had one of those SS Marshall jcm800's and he is an awesome player. he had a bunch of pedals on it and made it sound like Stevie Ray, Van Halen......
the funny thing is that when he sold this and got a rack/tube setup he sounds almost exaclty the same ( as when he had the SS) when he plays the stuff in the bedroom!!
it is so true.
almost forgot to say, that there is nothing wrong with SS amps. some of them are actually really good.
i think that there are good SS and good tube amps. just because it is tube doesnt mean it is good sounding.
i just think that too many of us have got caught in the tube amp thingy and it doesnt really apply to all.
yes overall they do sound better than SS.
but for someone in bedroom which then has to get a good cab, then an attenuator etc... maybe sometimes a SS amp is a better deal.
i remember a friend of mine that had one of those SS Marshall jcm800's and he is an awesome player. he had a bunch of pedals on it and made it sound like Stevie Ray, Van Halen......
the funny thing is that when he sold this and got a rack/tube setup he sounds almost exaclty the same ( as when he had the SS) when he plays the stuff in the bedroom!!
it is so true.
DesertRose
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
you sold your JTM 60 combo ? i mean, how did it sound like ?
you sold your JTM 60 combo ? i mean, how did it sound like ?
tone?
New member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
desertrose,
it sounded good when it was brand new. even for playing at bedroom levels.
i wouldnt come close to one of those amps again though cause they break down if you look at them to hard!
it had quite a sweet sound to it but after it breaking down so often it kind lost its tone for some reason.
i would run away if i saw one now!
only old Marshalls for me.
desertrose,
it sounded good when it was brand new. even for playing at bedroom levels.
i wouldnt come close to one of those amps again though cause they break down if you look at them to hard!
it had quite a sweet sound to it but after it breaking down so often it kind lost its tone for some reason.
i would run away if i saw one now!
only old Marshalls for me.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Master Volumes are not cure alls. It allows good tone at quieter levels but that is relative. If you have to have bedroom levels its going to be tough to impossible to achieve the best a 50-100 Marshall has to offer at bedroom levels.
iceman79 said:
Master Volumes are not cure alls. It allows good tone at quieter levels but that is relative. If you have to have bedroom levels its going to be tough to impossible to achieve the best a 50-100 Marshall has to offer at bedroom levels.
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
Thanks everyone for all the input:beerchug: I guess I might try out a THD Hotplate. Anything below 3 and the amp sounds like a bunch of angry bees, and anything above 3 sounds like a nice Marshall but it's still way too loud for my living situation. My Zinky gets a nice warm overdrive even when it's turned down (and roars at club volume), and I was expecting the same from the Marshall. At least now I know it isn't the amp.
Thanks everyone for all the input:beerchug: I guess I might try out a THD Hotplate. Anything below 3 and the amp sounds like a bunch of angry bees, and anything above 3 sounds like a nice Marshall but it's still way too loud for my living situation. My Zinky gets a nice warm overdrive even when it's turned down (and roars at club volume), and I was expecting the same from the Marshall. At least now I know it isn't the amp.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: I think I hate my Marshall
**DISCLAIMER** Be careful when mucking around inside a tube amp. There are lethal voltages present that can kill you even when it's turned off and unplugged.
In simpler terms....be careful. :beerchug:
Yeah, it's an easy mod. Just clip the "treble bleed" or "bright" cap off. I've seen it and have the info at home. Search google with "JCM800 mods" without the quotes. It should come up.tone? said:
**DISCLAIMER** Be careful when mucking around inside a tube amp. There are lethal voltages present that can kill you even when it's turned off and unplugged.
In simpler terms....be careful. :beerchug:
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