I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
- Thread starter Agileguy_101
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Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
Well the problem that I've noticed is that big name guitarists have a very specific tone because they've had very specific modifications done. You won't get Jimi's tone unless you have the exact same mods that he did to his wah. The other problem is that if you're looking at Hendrix, you have to play a guitar that is set up for a lefthander and play it upside down. I remember reading somewhere that he didn't even do a proper intonation for the guitar and just restrung it backwards. So he was usually not intonated when he played which also contributed to his sound. I think you can get some of the same gear, but you won't get the exact sound of the artist and that's not a bad thing. You might stumble upon a better sound along the way.
Well the problem that I've noticed is that big name guitarists have a very specific tone because they've had very specific modifications done. You won't get Jimi's tone unless you have the exact same mods that he did to his wah. The other problem is that if you're looking at Hendrix, you have to play a guitar that is set up for a lefthander and play it upside down. I remember reading somewhere that he didn't even do a proper intonation for the guitar and just restrung it backwards. So he was usually not intonated when he played which also contributed to his sound. I think you can get some of the same gear, but you won't get the exact sound of the artist and that's not a bad thing. You might stumble upon a better sound along the way.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
Usually there's three movements: the pungento con tutti, the shuffle, the largo
Usually there's three movements: the pungento con tutti, the shuffle, the largo
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
There's at least 50 years of data on thousands of cover bands playing in bars that confirms: the more you drink, the better we sound.
There's at least 50 years of data on thousands of cover bands playing in bars that confirms: the more you drink, the better we sound.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
If your band was setting out to cover a Hendrix tune, do you think it would matter more that you were playing on an upside-down-strung-and-not-intonated strat into a specially modified wah into a vintage Marshall, or that you know how to play the song?
If your band was setting out to cover a Hendrix tune, do you think it would matter more that you were playing on an upside-down-strung-and-not-intonated strat into a specially modified wah into a vintage Marshall, or that you know how to play the song?
DreX
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
You're presuming motives. Nobody has said they're covering anything, let alone with concern for an audience.
If I look for someone's tone, it's to do my own thing with it. I think we all here a guitarist's awesome solo in a recording, and we virtually play their guitar with our imagination and do our own thing, imagine their sound but pick our own notes. But then when you pick up a real guitar to put your plan into action, you can't twiddle enough knobs to get your gear to sound like what you're imagined it should sound like.
I go for the SRV tone, but then I don't play blues with it at all. I think I've been reasonably successful at getting his tone, there's a ton of resources to that end, and his rig wasn't real complex to begin with.
You're presuming motives. Nobody has said they're covering anything, let alone with concern for an audience.
If I look for someone's tone, it's to do my own thing with it. I think we all here a guitarist's awesome solo in a recording, and we virtually play their guitar with our imagination and do our own thing, imagine their sound but pick our own notes. But then when you pick up a real guitar to put your plan into action, you can't twiddle enough knobs to get your gear to sound like what you're imagined it should sound like.
I go for the SRV tone, but then I don't play blues with it at all. I think I've been reasonably successful at getting his tone, there's a ton of resources to that end, and his rig wasn't real complex to begin with.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
I never said anything about an audience, or motives. I asked a simple question, DreX, perhaps you would care to answer instead of trying to change the topic? Let me re-phrase it clearly:
Q: If you are trying to replicate a great song, which factor would be more important:
1.) Having the original guitar, amp, pedals, and sound engineer that were used to record the song
2.) Knowing how to play the song
One answer is saying you believe the equipment is largely responsible for the sound, the other is saying you believe the player's technique is responsible.
I never said anything about an audience, or motives. I asked a simple question, DreX, perhaps you would care to answer instead of trying to change the topic? Let me re-phrase it clearly:
Q: If you are trying to replicate a great song, which factor would be more important:
1.) Having the original guitar, amp, pedals, and sound engineer that were used to record the song
2.) Knowing how to play the song
One answer is saying you believe the equipment is largely responsible for the sound, the other is saying you believe the player's technique is responsible.
DreX
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
You said "If your band was setting out to cover a Hendrix tune", so all that's implicit in the premise.
That's all beside the point, if you notice this bit in the post you replied to
in cases like mine and others, it's not about playing the song, just getting the sound so we can do our own thing with it. Little Wing isn't my own song.
You said "If your band was setting out to cover a Hendrix tune", so all that's implicit in the premise.
That's all beside the point, if you notice this bit in the post you replied to
in cases like mine and others, it's not about playing the song, just getting the sound so we can do our own thing with it. Little Wing isn't my own song.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
No, it will keep smoldering as long as music remains semi-detached from art to make it a viable consumer product for the sheeple.
I very seriously doubt that Paganini, Reinhardt, Segovia, Polfuss, King, Page, Van Halen (and this list goes on for miles) were trying to cop anyone`s tones and imagine being them in front of a mirror. It took at least until the 70s when electric guitars were becoming more and more of a mass market / "every household needs at least one" items and musicians were given more and more high profile media coverage for this trend to start.
Kill the whole corporate arena rockstar charade, and people will start trying to sound like themselves again, which is what playing guitar SHOULD be about: expressing yourself, not parroting someone else
No, it will keep smoldering as long as music remains semi-detached from art to make it a viable consumer product for the sheeple.
I very seriously doubt that Paganini, Reinhardt, Segovia, Polfuss, King, Page, Van Halen (and this list goes on for miles) were trying to cop anyone`s tones and imagine being them in front of a mirror. It took at least until the 70s when electric guitars were becoming more and more of a mass market / "every household needs at least one" items and musicians were given more and more high profile media coverage for this trend to start.
Kill the whole corporate arena rockstar charade, and people will start trying to sound like themselves again, which is what playing guitar SHOULD be about: expressing yourself, not parroting someone else
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Dr. Vegetable
New member
DreX
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
Copying tones isn't necessarily about looking in a mirror and pretending you're someone else, it's about learning from other musicians, and how they achieve certain sounds. It just so happens those people are arena rock stars because the greatest number of people are familiar with them and their sound.
No, it will keep smoldering as long as music remains semi-detached from art to make it a viable consumer product for the sheeple.
I very seriously doubt that Paganini, Reinhardt, Segovia, Polfuss, King, Page, Van Halen (and this list goes on for miles) were trying to cop anyone`s tones and imagine being them in front of a mirror. It took at least until the 70s when electric guitars were becoming more and more of a mass market / "every household needs at least one" items and musicians were given more and more high profile media coverage for this trend to start.
Kill the whole corporate arena rockstar charade, and people will start trying to sound like themselves again, which is what playing guitar SHOULD be about: expressing yourself, not parroting someone else
Copying tones isn't necessarily about looking in a mirror and pretending you're someone else, it's about learning from other musicians, and how they achieve certain sounds. It just so happens those people are arena rock stars because the greatest number of people are familiar with them and their sound.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
I think by the time a young Eddie Van Halen first picked up a guitar, the rock star as a cultural institution was already ensconced. I've read about him learning the solos from Cream records, maybe the way Dime woodshedded over Van Halen licks when he was getting started. I think even the most influential, original artists were inspired by -- and learned -- the music of others, at least early on.
I see the difference you describe as coming from the rockstar icon plus the availability of popularly-priced equipment that people can (and will) buy even if they have no serious plans to pursue music as a career or even as an earnest creative endeavor. Dilettantes, if you will -- people like me. We're encouraged to pick up a guitar and make some noise, or at least buy it and take it home; there's an industry that's grown up around it which has actually helped perpetuate its own market.
It seems that there will always be outstanding individuals who are natural musicians and, though they will take influences here and there, will do something mainly from their own artistic vision, as opposed to the emulation/hero-worship route. Do you think the music and imagery promoted by the mass media impacts the development of unique musical personalities, at the grassroots level? That at least a small number of people who right now are largely indistinguishable from hordes of others banging on guitars at GC this weekend, might in a different cultural environment be turning into the next breath-of-fresh-air type of musical revolution?
No, it will keep smoldering as long as music remains semi-detached from art to make it a viable consumer product for the sheeple.
I very seriously doubt that Paganini, Reinhardt, Segovia, Polfuss, King, Page, Van Halen (and this list goes on for miles) were trying to cop anyone`s tones and imagine being them in front of a mirror. It took at least until the 70s when electric guitars were becoming more and more of a mass market / "every household needs at least one" items and musicians were given more and more high profile media coverage for this trend to start.
Kill the whole corporate arena rockstar charade, and people will start trying to sound like themselves again, which is what playing guitar SHOULD be about: expressing yourself, not parroting someone else
I think by the time a young Eddie Van Halen first picked up a guitar, the rock star as a cultural institution was already ensconced. I've read about him learning the solos from Cream records, maybe the way Dime woodshedded over Van Halen licks when he was getting started. I think even the most influential, original artists were inspired by -- and learned -- the music of others, at least early on.
I see the difference you describe as coming from the rockstar icon plus the availability of popularly-priced equipment that people can (and will) buy even if they have no serious plans to pursue music as a career or even as an earnest creative endeavor. Dilettantes, if you will -- people like me. We're encouraged to pick up a guitar and make some noise, or at least buy it and take it home; there's an industry that's grown up around it which has actually helped perpetuate its own market.
It seems that there will always be outstanding individuals who are natural musicians and, though they will take influences here and there, will do something mainly from their own artistic vision, as opposed to the emulation/hero-worship route. Do you think the music and imagery promoted by the mass media impacts the development of unique musical personalities, at the grassroots level? That at least a small number of people who right now are largely indistinguishable from hordes of others banging on guitars at GC this weekend, might in a different cultural environment be turning into the next breath-of-fresh-air type of musical revolution?
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
Yes, because the most important thing we can learn from studying Jimi Hendrix is what kind of wah pedal he used.
Yes, because the most important thing we can learn from studying Jimi Hendrix is what kind of wah pedal he used.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
I guess that depends on whom you ask. To someone who'd like to sell you a pedal, maybe it is.
In all seriousness, I think the more valuable thing -- gear related -- is in how they used the equipment. I think there comes a point where getting the tone is kind of a mundane technical detail, in service of the music you want to play with that tone. If you're all hot and bothered to get a particular sound, sometimes just getting it and moving on is the best thing for your pursuit of the music. If you're a scrub who can't play like that anyway (like me), then that will become apparent all the more swiftly.
I guess that depends on whom you ask. To someone who'd like to sell you a pedal, maybe it is.
In all seriousness, I think the more valuable thing -- gear related -- is in how they used the equipment. I think there comes a point where getting the tone is kind of a mundane technical detail, in service of the music you want to play with that tone. If you're all hot and bothered to get a particular sound, sometimes just getting it and moving on is the best thing for your pursuit of the music. If you're a scrub who can't play like that anyway (like me), then that will become apparent all the more swiftly.
DreX
New member
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
Not I, nor anyone else, ever said gear what the "most important" thing we could learn from a fellow guitarist.
Not I, nor anyone else, ever said gear what the "most important" thing we could learn from a fellow guitarist.
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Dr. Vegetable
New member
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
So responding to the OP, yes a guitarist will sound like him or herself no matter what rig they are playing on. The perfect example of this is Spanish Fly, the second you hear it you know it is Eddie.
So responding to the OP, yes a guitarist will sound like him or herself no matter what rig they are playing on. The perfect example of this is Spanish Fly, the second you hear it you know it is Eddie.
Re: I Want to Clear Up a Misconception
I think you're wrong about Jimi, I've read most of the books about him, and when he bought a new guitar, he would right away spend time reversing the nut, restringing and intonating it, and would put the trem bar in a vise and bend it to a specific angle that worked for him. He was not ignorant of how to set up a guitar, that's for sure.
Al
I think you're wrong about Jimi, I've read most of the books about him, and when he bought a new guitar, he would right away spend time reversing the nut, restringing and intonating it, and would put the trem bar in a vise and bend it to a specific angle that worked for him. He was not ignorant of how to set up a guitar, that's for sure.
Al
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