I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

[ImmortalSix]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

I always thought that there should be "some"
forward bow in a well adjusted neck
using the strings as a straight edge
fret the first and last fret
there should be about 1/16 of an inch of gap
round the 8th or ninth fret

at least that is my understanding of "relief"

Maybe that is my problem - I have been setting up guitars with the necks straight as a string.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

I always thought that there should be "some"
forward bow in a well adjusted neck
using the strings as a straight edge
fret the first and last fret
there should be about 1/16 of an inch of gap
round the 8th or ninth fret

at least that is my understanding of "relief"

The references I have on the subject of 'relief' don't recommend using the 1st to last fret. They measure (observe) from 1st to the point where the neck joins the body, which is usually around the 14th or 15th fret. The reason being that as the neck thickens into the heel, it doesn't flex as much and doesn't form part of the curvature that string pull exerts. Using the 1st to 14/15th technique, the relief at the 7th fret would be expected to be .012" on an American Standard Strat.


EDIT: Dan Erlewine uses 1st and 17th frets for relief measurement.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

I hope the posts were helpful.

I think I need to clarify a few things:

1) You cannot change how far each string bends in relation to the other strings by angling the claw. However, you can do it by changing the gauges of individual strings. If you want a certain string to drop lower when you push on the arm, you can use a lighter string, and vice versa. But that is kind of nitpicky. I never feel the need to fine tune the relationships of the bend from string to string, because I don't use the vibrato to make in-tune bends of multiple strings. I just use it for some warble, or an inexact effect such as a dive bomb or what have you.

2) While what I said above about angling the claw not affecting the relative pitch changes between strings is true, there is no actual drawback to angling the claw. It does allow you to do fine adjustments of spring tension by using only one screw. For instance, it is easier to accurately turn one screw 1/4 turn than it is to accurately turn each screw 1/8 turn for the same total effect.

3) I downplayed the usefulness of the posts on a two-post bridge. I made the mistake of saying that they should always be screwed all the way in unless compensating for a neck angle. That is where I set them to start, but they are more useful than that. They can allow you to make an across-the board adjustment to string height without affecting the angle at which the saddles sit in relationship to the neck. And they let you make an overall adjustment in string height without screwing up the radius that you have set using the saddles. And they allow you to keep the radius set by the saddles, but to tilt it one way or the other (like raising one side of a TOM bridge).

Strat are a bit of a PITA to set up. But there is nothing like them once you have them dialed in.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

The stiffness of the neck also determins how much your bridge will float.
Depending on how much you wanna be able to pull it up.

More neck angle will also affect the tension, can help to lower the action if the strings are not too bouncy...
There a small shim will be a godsend.

Some guitars do not like it though, but mostly it will work.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

The references I have on the subject of 'relief' don't recommend using the 1st to last fret. They measure (observe) from 1st to the point where the neck joins the body, which is usually around the 14th or 15th fret. The reason being that as the neck thickens into the heel, it doesn't flex as much and doesn't form part of the curvature that string pull exerts. Using the 1st to 14/15th technique, the relief at the 7th fret would be expected to be .012" on an American Standard Strat.


EDIT: Dan Erlewine uses 1st and 17th frets for relief measurement.

ok I can go with that

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

Awesome, awesome info in this thread.

Should rename it to "I6 gets thoroughly and helpfully schooled by people who know a lot more than him!"

 

[Chris of Arabia]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

I always play my guitars with a little bit of a bow.

Ladies & Gentlemen, Jimmy Page is in the house!

 

[donnievaz]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

Get this book by Dan Erlewine, and follow his step by step instructions. I promise you will be happy with the setup!

Also get some shorter saddle screws from the Fastener Warehouse.
http://www.fastener-warehouse.com

These fit the MIM bridge, you may have to do a little homework if you have a USA.

Items Ordered
-----------------
M3-0.5 x 6mm Socket Cup Point Set Screw A2 Stainless Steel (#2730936): 24
Item Total: $2.88

M3-0.5 x 8mm Socket Cup Point Set Screw A2 Stainless Steel (#2730938): 24
Item Total: $2.88

 

[Gunny47]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

1) You cannot change how far each string bends in relation to the other strings by angling the claw. However, you can do it by changing the gauges of individual strings. If you want a certain string to drop lower when you push on the arm, you can use a lighter string, and vice versa. But that is kind of nitpicky. I never feel the need to fine tune the relationships of the bend from string to string, because I don't use the vibrato to make in-tune bends of multiple strings. I just use it for some warble, or an inexact effect such as a dive bomb or what have you.

Strat are a bit of a PITA to set up. But there is nothing like them once you have them dialed in.

This is what I found too when I was experimenting yesterday and the day before.

No matter how hard I tried, I could not get the strings bend up like Carl's strat (half step on first string, whole step on second string, minor third on third string). I have a wound third string (24 gauge) so it just wouldn't go that far when everything else was set up how I liked it. It's like tuning - it's really a compromise between tension, floating level etc etc. I really like the way I have it now so that's what you gotta go for. It's not gonna be perfectly in-tune everywhere on the neck either. As the distance to go a half step decreases as you go up the neck (like fret distances are unequal - ya'll know the drill).

 

[wahwah]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

While the Carl setup certainly offers a challenge, I'm not exactly sure of the relevance of its application, musically. No doubt Carl can do amazing things with it, but there's a good chance that you'd be just as happy with enough float in the bridge to get it up above pitch a half step. It really comes down to how you intend to use the arm and the vibrato effect.




Cheers........................................ wahwah

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

I6....you dont need rulers or feeler guages for a good setup.
for floating trem:
1. tune it and see how far up the first string can go when you pull on the bar. If you want more, then loosen the springs a little and retune. keep repeating till you are happy. I set my top string to one semitone.
2. set the action on the saddles as low as possible but no buzzing from the 16th fret up. forget about lower frets at this stage. Make sure its not so low that when you bend the stings "fret out". go back to step one.
3. when you are happy with steps one and two, then adjust the neck relief until there is either no, or minimal buzzing when you play hard on any of the frets lower than 16.
4. set your intonation, then go back to step one and keep goin thru the process till its all balanced.

last thing....if you cant get the saddles low enough with the trem floating, then you might need a small neck angle adjustment before starting again.

now re: staying in tune.
you have to choose: either have the strings go out of tune when you dive, or have the strings go out of tune when you pull up. I prefer it to go out when you dive, because that means bending up or pulling up on the trem will pull it back into tune. Make sure the strings are properly stretched before you start.

step 1: tune the top string and pull up on the bar. If it goes out of tune, retune it with the tuning pegs. pull up again. keep going until pulling up doesnt make it go out.
step 2: dive. it will almost definitely put it out of tune.dont touch the tuning pegs. Pull up on the bar and see if it pops back into tune. if not, go back to step one.
step 3: go back to step on but on each subsequent string. Do top e then b. back to top, e,b,g back to top e,b,g,d back to top e,b,g,d,a back to top e,b,g,d,a, e

voila! you have a trem that still goes out (they all do!) but that you can pull back into tune by pulling up on the bar or bending a string. Use this process every time you tune it.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

While the Carl setup certainly offers a challenge, I'm not exactly sure of the relevance of its application, musically. No doubt Carl can do amazing things with it, but there's a good chance that you'd be just as happy with enough float in the bridge to get it up above pitch a half step. It really comes down to how you intend to use the arm and the vibrato effect.




Cheers........................................ wahwah

On my strats where the vibrato is set up to float and works good,I have the rear of the bridge up say 4/32"...I don't really pull up on the vibrato,but I Like the way the guitar plays and feels this way..I don't like when the rear of the bridge is up to where it can pull a whole step up and I hate the way it looks..Thats just me though.. ;o)

 

[JordanM82]

Re: I6 Sets up a Stratocaster Floating Vibrato

Hunter, I can't help but think after reading this that you might need a shim... I would add a little relief and see if that helps you bring the action down without adding too much buzz (previously suggested by several people I see). Here's hoping you get a great result and a great guitar back...