Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
- Thread starter gnugear
- Start date
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
What are you done with amps now? lol
What are you done with amps now? lol
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Turned them all into transistor heads
Turned them all into transistor heads
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Hehe too little current in guitars...it is of no matter really.
Hehe too little current in guitars...it is of no matter really.
RiffRaff
New member
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
The debate on Caps in the tone circuit is huge!!! Some say it absolutely doesn't matter because the circuit isn't active (under power) so the quality of the caps plays virtually no roll in shaping the tone - where as other buy expensive caps (you can spend as much as $80 on some "vintage" parts) and swear they make huge changes. I've only modded my tone circuit in one way that I (IMHO) can say it did change my overall tone, I took my tone pot, opened it up and put a few coats of fingernail polish on the pad which the wiper meets when you want NO tone changes - it takes the tone pot completely out of the circuit. I get more "presence" in the sound of the guituar - nothing huge but I've played around with different caps and it's the only thing I've done that I could hear the difference afterwards.
The debate on Caps in the tone circuit is huge!!! Some say it absolutely doesn't matter because the circuit isn't active (under power) so the quality of the caps plays virtually no roll in shaping the tone - where as other buy expensive caps (you can spend as much as $80 on some "vintage" parts) and swear they make huge changes. I've only modded my tone circuit in one way that I (IMHO) can say it did change my overall tone, I took my tone pot, opened it up and put a few coats of fingernail polish on the pad which the wiper meets when you want NO tone changes - it takes the tone pot completely out of the circuit. I get more "presence" in the sound of the guituar - nothing huge but I've played around with different caps and it's the only thing I've done that I could hear the difference afterwards.
elvis-santana
New member
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
I like to voice my rig on the bright side and brown it a little with the tone rolled back a little. I use old Spragues, the 5/16" thick barrel type. No comparison with the little ceramics.
I like to voice my rig on the bright side and brown it a little with the tone rolled back a little. I use old Spragues, the 5/16" thick barrel type. No comparison with the little ceramics.
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Folks will always debate the differences in compositon...ceramic, foil-oil, teflon and so on. What I think most of us will agree on, however is that the value of the cap makes a big difference in tone. It most certainly does in my guitars.
Folks will always debate the differences in compositon...ceramic, foil-oil, teflon and so on. What I think most of us will agree on, however is that the value of the cap makes a big difference in tone. It most certainly does in my guitars.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Think of a pot/cap combo as a "treble" valve, that dumps to ground.
The cap is how big the drain pipe is.
The pot is how far the valve is open.
A larger value cap means you have a bigger pipe to ground.
(You'll dump more treble.)
A larger value pot is the opposite. Its higher resistance - opposing the flow to ground.
A 500k pot at "5" is electrically identical to a 250k pot at "10".
It will allow you to "close-the-valve" a bit more.
Edit: Just to summarize: a higher value pot will allow you to "preserve" a bit more treble when at "10". All tone pots, of any value, are identical when on "0". (A short is a short.)
Think of a pot/cap combo as a "treble" valve, that dumps to ground.
The cap is how big the drain pipe is.
The pot is how far the valve is open.
A larger value cap means you have a bigger pipe to ground.
(You'll dump more treble.)
A larger value pot is the opposite. Its higher resistance - opposing the flow to ground.
A 500k pot at "5" is electrically identical to a 250k pot at "10".
It will allow you to "close-the-valve" a bit more.
Edit: Just to summarize: a higher value pot will allow you to "preserve" a bit more treble when at "10". All tone pots, of any value, are identical when on "0". (A short is a short.)
Last edited:
MattPete
New member
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
I'm not sure if I like Artie's analogy for caps.
How about this: the cap determines the cut-off point where the frequency band is "treble" or "not treble". Everything above that point will be dumped to ground as the tone knob is turned down.
If you use a higher value cap (i.e. .047), the "treble" zone will reach futher down, so when you turn the tone knob down, you will be removing more mids and producing mud. If you use a higher value cap (i.e. .01), the "treble" zone starts higher, so if you turn down the tone knob, you'll be removing just the high frequencies and leaving the mids (and maybe high-mids) alone.
So...the pot opens and closes the valve, and the cap determines what frequency range that valve covers.
I'm not sure if I like Artie's analogy for caps.
How about this: the cap determines the cut-off point where the frequency band is "treble" or "not treble". Everything above that point will be dumped to ground as the tone knob is turned down.
If you use a higher value cap (i.e. .047), the "treble" zone will reach futher down, so when you turn the tone knob down, you will be removing more mids and producing mud. If you use a higher value cap (i.e. .01), the "treble" zone starts higher, so if you turn down the tone knob, you'll be removing just the high frequencies and leaving the mids (and maybe high-mids) alone.
So...the pot opens and closes the valve, and the cap determines what frequency range that valve covers.
Wattage
High Voltologist
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Caps make a difference absolutely, obviously value more than type. .01's little roll off -.047 much larger roll off. I find Orange Drops to be the best for most of my guitars, never messed much with vintage style caps so I can't comment on them but certainly an OD vs. a ceramic disc there is a noticeable difference. It is not neccessarily a huge difference but there are subtleties that are there.
Caps make a difference absolutely, obviously value more than type. .01's little roll off -.047 much larger roll off. I find Orange Drops to be the best for most of my guitars, never messed much with vintage style caps so I can't comment on them but certainly an OD vs. a ceramic disc there is a noticeable difference. It is not neccessarily a huge difference but there are subtleties that are there.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
And as usual it is what works for the individual guitar and amp, plus the ever unknown factor of the player in the equasion.
Experiment until you find what suits you best.
And as usual it is what works for the individual guitar and amp, plus the ever unknown factor of the player in the equasion.
Experiment until you find what suits you best.
Re: Importance of capacitors on the tone pots?
Well, there's a bit more to it than just that ... true the capacitor combines with the pup's impedance to produce a first order low pass filter (it also interacts with the inductance of the pup and changes the pups resonant peak), but when you turn the knob it effects two things the attenuation amount, but also it slides the high and low corners of the filter around, so the cut off frequency shifts with the change of the control, as well as the frequency at the point of lowest attenuation. However the slope still remains the same when turned all the way down to *0*. If the cut off is at say 800Hz (-3dB), then it's down -6dB @ 1.6kHz., -12dB @ 3.2kHz., -18dB @ 6.4kHz. ... and -20dB @ 8kHz. (the decade) ... and so on. Once that control is changed though the cut off is raised, and a limit is put on how low the attenuation will go, at that limit there is a frequency and from that frequency on up the level of attenuation stays the same (more or less). That *low shelf frequency* gets shifted around also, as does the higher cut off frequency.
The cap and pot are not mutually exclusive of each other, one effects the other, so to speak. I just thought I'd throw in a bit more complete explanation...
Plus, Artie and Fresh Start like it when I go on these technical rants... :laugh2: :cool3:
MattPete said:
Well, there's a bit more to it than just that ... true the capacitor combines with the pup's impedance to produce a first order low pass filter (it also interacts with the inductance of the pup and changes the pups resonant peak), but when you turn the knob it effects two things the attenuation amount, but also it slides the high and low corners of the filter around, so the cut off frequency shifts with the change of the control, as well as the frequency at the point of lowest attenuation. However the slope still remains the same when turned all the way down to *0*. If the cut off is at say 800Hz (-3dB), then it's down -6dB @ 1.6kHz., -12dB @ 3.2kHz., -18dB @ 6.4kHz. ... and -20dB @ 8kHz. (the decade) ... and so on. Once that control is changed though the cut off is raised, and a limit is put on how low the attenuation will go, at that limit there is a frequency and from that frequency on up the level of attenuation stays the same (more or less). That *low shelf frequency* gets shifted around also, as does the higher cut off frequency.
The cap and pot are not mutually exclusive of each other, one effects the other, so to speak. I just thought I'd throw in a bit more complete explanation...
Plus, Artie and Fresh Start like it when I go on these technical rants... :laugh2: :cool3:
