Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

I'd like to add this just from my personal experience. Some guys just aren't cut out to "play" a Strat. I love Strats, but I can't play them for crap and I've picked up some dammed nice Strats. I've met a couple other guys like that as well. They can wail on just about guitar you hand them. You hand them a Strat and it's end game. Granted, they could still play and play well, but it's just not that "perfect" Strat tone we've heard so many of the greats get.

I've heard you're clips/seen your vidz and you're a really talented player, maybe you're just not a Strat guy.

 

[Gamera]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

I'd like to add this just from my personal experience. Some guys just aren't cut out to "play" a Strat. I love Strats, but I can't play them for crap and I've picked up some dammed nice Strats. I've met a couple other guys like that as well. They can wail on just about guitar you hand them. You hand them a Strat and it's end game.

As much as I want to hate this statement and say it's a gross exaggeration and stereotype, I can't. There's a certain amount of truth to it. I think it's far easier to pick up a set-neck humbucker guitar and find your own tone and groove. Finding your own tone and groove with a Stat takes an extra step. Even if you're somewhat proficient with a Strat I think most folks fall into a generic bar band sound and vibe. Very few get beyond that and really learn to make it theirs IMHO.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

If you can produce a nice, clean, fat tone with your hands when the guitar isn't even plugged in, you'll probably sound good on a Strat or Tele - but if you're a fumble finger or a player who relies on fat sounding humbuckers to produce a rich tone, or if you're a player who relies on tons of distortion to get sustain and a fat tone you may feel uncomfortable with the revealing clean tones of a Strat or Tele.

Regarding improving the tone of a Strat or Tele:

If you can live without a floating vibrato, tighten the springs around the back until the bridge baseplate lays flat against the body of the guitar when the strings are tuned to full tension.

Then remove the strings and the neck and shim the neck joint. Cut a business card or credit card to about 1/2" by 2" and then trim it to fit perfectly into the end of the neck pocket that's closest to the neck pickup.

Reinstall the neck.

You'll find you'll have to raise the bridge saddles to get the strings off of the neck.

You'll also have to raise the pickups.

But you'll have increased the string angle behind the saddles quite a bit and that will seat the strings against the saddles more firmly and you'll probably hear a more solid tone with better sustain.



Lew

 

[sosomething]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

No need to get all pissy just because you haven't been invited to host a Well yet.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Not getting pissy about it. I made the suggestion to get the well moved to another location so the vault wouldn't become empty.

Now the vault is a few decent reviews of pickups, some usable electronic tutorials, and thats it. It used to be a very awesome knowledge gold mine.

Actually, I see that as a pretty good suggestion.

The Well threads should probably be archived to their own forum room.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Keep a big, big supply of fresh strings. Replace them often.

Thanks --- I am a nut for new strings, coincidentally. I usually load up new strings on my main axes every two weeks, you could set your watch by it.

Well as a car guy and guitar player.Take the Super Stock drag racers approach to setting up your guitar. One little improvement may not amount to crap but 10 little things do.
Also allot of resonance can be had at the bridge saddle.Once you get your action were you want it.Don't be affraid to expierament with little 1/4 turns on the saddle screws and listen.

Yeah man, I know exactly what you're talking about --- good point. We built an autocross car one time and the old-timer that we were getting advice from told us "The best way to save a pound is to save sixteen ounces."

on a side note, what's your opinion of factory five kit cars:naughty:

I'm completely unfamiliar with them fftopic:

Increasing the weight of the headstock worked well for me on a buddy's strat. The Groove Tubes Fat Finger works wonders when placed just right.

Man, I have always wanted to try that --- I may just go buy one this afternoon and try it. Thanks for the push

I'd like to add this just from my personal experience. Some guys just aren't cut out to "play" a Strat. I love Strats, but I can't play them for crap and I've picked up some dammed nice Strats. I've met a couple other guys like that as well. They can wail on just about guitar you hand them. You hand them a Strat and it's end game. Granted, they could still play and play well, but it's just not that "perfect" Strat tone we've heard so many of the greats get.

I've heard you're clips/seen your vidz and you're a really talented player, maybe you're just not a Strat guy.

First off, thank you for the compliment. I really think I am a Strat guy --- and not because I have had one in my hands for 12 years now, but because of these **** youtube video demos I have been making recently. I get to see myself like others would see, and I have to say, my technique plays into the Stratocasters strengths. I'm very precise and forceful with my left hand and very heavy and accurate with my right, both seem like single coil / Strat skillsets. I have been wrong before, but I love Strat tone and I'm not giving up!

If you can produce a nice clean tone with your hands when the guitar isn't even plugged in, you'll probably sound good on a Strat or Tele - but if you're a fumble finger who relies on fat sounding humbuckers to produce a rich tone for you, or a player who relies on tons of distortion to get sustain and a fat tone you won't like the revealing clean tones of a Strat or Tele.

Lew, I am an acoustic player first, and as you may have noticed from my comments in your threads, I place a high value on clean left hand technique and on-time right hand technique. I would also say that about 80% of the time I spend playing electric guitars is unplugged. I probably only play through an amp about 1 hour to 2 hours a week, including my weekly gig. I took the trash out this morning and realized my guitar amp has been in the trunk of my car since Saturday.

Regarding improving the tone of a Strat or Tele:

If you can live without a floating vibrato, tighten the springs around the back until the bridge baseplate lays flat against the body of the guitar - even when the strings are tuned to full tension.


Lew

I actually went back to this (pictured, from years ago) last night and it solved my problem. I had my Strat like that for maybe 8 or 9 years and went back to floating last year after reading an article in a magazine. Silly me. I changed it back to being "hardtail'd" and now it's really connected feeling, the action is higher (good for this guitar, it was too low) and it's all around more resonant. I tried a lot of tricks last night and that was the one that did it f or me --- the trick that I had told everyone else to do for 10 years :laugh2:


BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Clean neck pocket and decent bridge are essential. I don't think the paint on the neck has to go, but the paint in the pocket, out. No stickers and no angle changers, of course.

You most likely get a noticeably difference in sustain on one hand versus organic sound on the other by having heavy sealed tuners or vintage style tuners.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Hunter... This helped me out a lot...

Change the Am. Standard tuners for Schaller Fender locking tuners. About 59 bucks when I got them. They are heavier. And you will be massively surprised by how heavy the package is. The tuners add more weight to your head stock.

Something really cool that also helped:

With the guitar tuned and ready to go: loosen your neck screws a quarter of a turn. From 12 o clock to 9 o clock. You will hear a creak... The strings are pulling your neck into your pocket tighter. Tighten it back up. Retune and intonate.

When I did this I could feel more vibrations in my left hand when I play... Guitar sounded fuller and louder after this.

I will think about the tuners thing.

I actually did that thing described above with the quarter turn and the big crack. (and I remember the 4 page controversy thread about it :laugh2

My jury is still out on how extra weight on the headstock will change the vibes in the neck, it would have to dampen them. On the other hand, from a string vibration physics standpoint, you want your two major nodes to be basically immovable objects.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Clean neck pocket and decent bridge are essential. I don't think the paint on the neck has to go, but the paint in the pocket, out. No stickers and no angle changers, of course.

You most likely get a noticeably difference in sustain on one hand versus organic sound on the other by having heavy sealed tuners or vintage style tuners.

If you install a shim in the neck pocket to improve the tone by being able to raise the bridge saddles, thus increasing the string angle behind the bridge saddles, there'll be an air gap under the neck and whether there's paint or dust in the neck pocket won't matter at all.

Lew

 

[tone?]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

i have to agree with the shim. best advice here.

I have experimented with it pretty much.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Getting rid of that Warmoth body and neck work wonders!

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

I had a shim made out of a cereal box in the pocket of my Jackson for a long time, and I removed it recently, and the guitar feels better now.

I understand what you are saying about the saddle elevation and the increased breakover angle, but apparently with my personal taste, the benefit afforded by increasing the string angle behind the saddle is less than the negative benefit in feel / playability of installing a shim in the pocket. Basically the cost / benefit does not work for me.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

If you install a shim in the neck pocket to improve the tone by being able to raise the bridge saddles, thus increasing the string angle behind the bridge saddles, there'll be an air gap under the neck and whether there's paint or dust in the neck pocket won't matter at all.

Lew

I freely admit that you are more of an authority on Strats than me, but the above is really contrary to my experience.

I cleaned out many neck pockets and I get an improvement out of it that's bigger than some minor fiddling elsewhere.

It's possible that different styles of paint have different impact. And of course a possible loss from a shim can be made more than good for by a higher bridge. But even then I'd consider re-angling the neck pocket with a router to get both.

Tightening up the neck pocket (after having a decent bridge) is the one thing that I found turns a mediocre Fender style guitar into a better one.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Did It help?... I think there was a few that didn't like it. I made the conclusion that they did too much turning.

What kind of strings do you use... Maybe the guy from the TGP (where I got it from) made the assumption that normal strings (tension) would be on the neck.

Not really --- I can't say I liked it any better after I did it. I had to reset my intonation, which some of you know is a butt-itch, and the guitar didn't play or sound any better.

I use regular strings, D'Addario EXL110's (.010's)

 

[uOpt]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Just to be sure people realize this:

There is a huge difference between making a guitar sounding "more organic", and improving sustain. It's not the same thing, in fact many things that you can do drive you in one direction, but away from the other.

The tuners are the classic example: the heavier tuners improve sustain all right, but they move you away from a more organic, woody sound.

And you don't need to change the tuners, Groove Tubes makes a sustain enhancer that you fix to the headplace (non-intrusive). It's basically a weight with a clamp. Didn't try it but should give similar results.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

There are plenty of Strats out there that resonate until the cows come home, even unplugged. Many of them cost less than yours. I have a 2000 American Standard myself (except mine resonates like a church bell ), and once in a while I'll play a Mexican Standard or a Highway 1 that blows me away. For a bigger wad of cash, the new 2008 American Standards are amazing Strats - easily the lightest and most resonant Strats I've ever played.

In case you haven't guessed by now, my advice is to sell it to someone who doesn't know better and buy a different one. Sure, you'll be able to make marginal improvements with mods and tweaks, but if it's as acoustically dead as you say it is, you will never be able to overcome that completely, short of replacing the body or neck.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

In case you haven't guessed by now, my advice is to sell it to someone who doesn't know better and buy a different one. Sure, you'll be able to make marginal improvements with mods and tweaks, but if it's as acoustically dead as you say it is, you will never be able to overcome that completely, short of replacing the body or neck.

Thanks for the advice, but I cannot sell the guitar. It was a gift from my father --- it was his symbolic way of saying "Hey kid, I think you're good enough to deserve a real instrument, and this will take you to the next level of playing.") He was right about all that, and the guitar is unsellable because it's more than a guitar to me, it's a message from 12 or 13 years ago.

And just to be clear I am speaking specifically about the unplugged, no amp, no cord resonance of the guitar. The way it feels in my hands when I strum a chord, nothing more.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

Thanks for the advice, but I cannot sell the guitar. It was a gift from my father --- it was his symbolic way of saying "Hey kid, I think you're good enough to deserve a real instrument, and this will take you to the next level of playing.") He was right about all that, and the guitar is unsellable because it's more than a guitar to me, it's a message from 12 or 13 years ago.

And just to be clear I am speaking specifically about the unplugged, no amp, no cord resonance of the guitar. The way it feels in my hands when I strum a chord, nothing more.

In that case, just keep playing it. Play it as often as you can, especially plugged in at high volume. You probably know this from the acoustic side of things, but the more you play a good guitar (and a US Fender is a good guitar in spite of everything), the better it will sound over time. This is one reason why vintage Strats are so sought-after. They aren't physically or technically any better than anything we can make today, but their wood has been vibrating for many, many years.

My #1 is a poplar-bodied MIM Strat with about 2 - 3 mm of polyester on it. It resonates plenty (not as much as my AmStd, but close). This isn't because it's made from an exceptionally good piece of wood, it's because its wood has been vibrating for thousands of hours. No accessory or upgrade can replace that.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

In that case, just keep playing it. Play it as often as you can, especially plugged in at high volume. You probably know this from the acoustic side of things, but the more you play a good guitar (and a US Fender is a good guitar in spite of everything), the better it will sound over time. This is one reason why vintage Strats are so sought-after. They aren't physically or technically any better than anything we can make today, but their wood has been vibrating for many, many years.

My #1 is a poplar-bodied MIM Strat with about 2 - 3 mm of polyester on it. It resonates plenty (not as much as my AmStd, but close). This isn't because it's made from an exceptionally good piece of wood, it's because its wood has been vibrating for thousands of hours. No accessory or upgrade can replace that.

I am with you on that. This guitar was my number one from the time I got it until this year when I started buying guitars, and it's got a lot of hours of playing and gigging and travelling and playing and more playing on it.

I brought it into a guitar store one time to test out some amps and the guitar store owner said to me, "What is that thing, a '68? '69?"

I had to laugh and say "No, it's a '96, it's just been to more shows than a hippie with a trust fund."

It's no relic, but if you saw it, you probably wouldn't guess 1996.

It has a lot of hours on it, and it is not really noticeably better than it used to be to me, but I also have begun thinking more about everything as I have aged --- neck radius, fret height, fret width, action, intonation, I think more about every little thing than I used to, I feel more.

At a gig I just plug it in and play and push that stuff out of mind, of course, but I'm saying that it could have gotten better at about the same rate that I got more critical :laugh2:

 

[Bludave]

Re: Improving Resonance in a Stratocaster

I have a 1996 American Standard Stratocaster. I have the bridge "hardtailed" with 5 trem springs and screwed down tight. I have performed the "loosen the neck bolts a quarter turn with the strings on, and let the neck draw in to the neck pocket then retighten" trick.

The guitar is not very resonant and is pretty lifeless to listen to unplugged. Great player, sounds great plugged in (see video demo of guitar in Signature) just lifeless unplugged.

Any suggestions will be appreciated!

Loosening the neck screws with the strings on is a bad idea IMHO. What that does is pull the neck out of the pocket. This will decrease resonance.

Here is what I do on all my Strats ( I have 4 & one in Progress)

1. I put a shim in the neck pocket just near the 2 top screws. What this does is tilt the neck forward just a tad. I use a very thin piece of wood or a strip of a business card to do this. I only do this if I am getting Fret slap (which can be common on some Fenders)

2. What you did with the trem is very good, but if you don't use the trem you can add a block of wood behind it. This will definitely add some resonance.

3. Higher action: Now this is a personal thing, but I have played a lot of Strats that sound lifeless and bland. Raising the action up usually makes a big difference. I recommend learning to play with a little higher action. this makes all my guitars become more resonant. I also prefer heavier strings. I use 11's & I play with action that is around 1/8th inch from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret. I know action is a very personal thing. Many players "need" low action, but I have always found that higher action will make the guitar more resonant simply because the strings can vibrate without bouncing off of the fret. This is the primary reason why acoustics have such great resonance.

I have never sanded out the cavities of any part of a guitars body to increase resonance. Personally if you are playing plugged into a hi wattage amps and are playing loud I don't see how this will help!