In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

SlowGroove

New member
Guys, has ony one of you got any experience w the MOOG MF-103 Stage Phaser ?

I am starting to look seriously into more modulation, and i believe a phaser will compliment my music the most right now !

Does anyone own the Moog unit ? ...or tested one before ?

http://www.pedalgeek.com/cgi-bin/ne...d=xCOetQAA1243295811&uzc=&command=link--mf103 - MOOG Stage Phaser

OK, so at $299.00 it is NOT cheap, but it is one of their cheapet pedals out there. And is cheaper than Toadwork's own Phantasm phaser, believe it or not !!! :eyecrazy:
And also just $19.00 more than the 3 knob unit from Maxon !

http://www.pedalgeek.com/cgi-bin/ne...A1243295811&command=search--items"&Submit=GO! - Phasers galore . . .


All info very welcome !

James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I'm a bit of a phaser whore, I probably have 6 or 7, that was one of the last ones I was going to get but never did. Although I'd be very interested in trying it for sure. I've heard the bypass on those is not the best, you get some bleed through as well as deteriorated signal in bypass.

It IS the Moog sound though... pair it with a MuRF and LPF for some serious fun. :)

What exactly are you looking for in terms of tone and flexibility? To be honest the Small Stone and Phase 45/90 sound great, are easy on the wallet and are easy to use. I plug those in more often than my Infinitphase, but of course that can do way more than the one knobbers.
 
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Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

Haven't spent any time with the moog phaser but it seems like it would be the last phaser anyone would ever need, as far as options go! Sort of on the other end of a phase 90 with its single knob. Its sorta hard to go wrong with a phase 100 if you want something simple w/ a few tonal options...

Some phasers are deep and crossover into the territory of a uni-vibe... others are more midrangy & biting... and some are shallow and watery, those are the ones that IMO do the best rotating speaker simulations.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I'm a bit of a phaser whore, I probably have 6 or 7, that was one of the last ones I was going to get but never did. Although I'd be very interested in trying it for sure. I've heard the bypass on those is not the best, you get some bleed through as well as deteriorated signal in bypass.

It IS the Moog sound though... pair it with a MuRF and LPF for some serious fun. :)

What exactly are you looking for in terms of tone and flexibility? To be honest the Small Stone and Phase 45/90 sound great, are easy on the wallet and are easy to use. I plug those in more often than my Infinitphase, but of course that can do way more than the one knobbers.


What do i want from a phaser ?
Mmmm . . . not that easy to say, to be honest ! "Some phasing sounds" ?
I really like the tones that the Moog can produce - as there are a good clip on Utoob.
I am looking for a pedal that can give me more than just one tone/option.
I want a very psycadellic tone, first and fore most. Very swirly, in a phaser like way ! Not uni-vibe way.

Another one i did look into is the EHX Stereo Polyphase.



James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

Haven't spent any time with the moog phaser but it seems like it would be the last phaser anyone would ever need, as far as options go! Sort of on the other end of a phase 90 with its single knob. Its sorta hard to go wrong with a phase 100 if you want something simple w/ a few tonal options...

Some phasers are deep and crossover into the territory of a uni-vibe... others are more midrangy & biting... and some are shallow and watery, those are the ones that IMO do the best rotating speaker simulations.

I was thinking of getting the MXR Phase 100, as i like it much more than any of the 90's, but then i saw the Moog on Utoob . . . and everything went out the window !

I deff want one that can go into Uni-Vibe kinda vibe w a phaser !



James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I owned the Moog. It does not get vibey. The 12-stage setting is thick and lush but it is more musical on the 6-stage setting. Yes, the buffer is weird but you get level and drive knobs to tweak it a bit and I had to spend a lot of time doing that. The Aux output (when used for stereo) is weak compared to the main out.

It is one of only 3 phasers I know of that let you pick the freq range (sweep), the other 2 being the Subdecay Quasar and the Earthquaker Grand Orbiter. It was my favorite feature, and the parameter I most often chose to use with an expression pedal for a space-wah effect. (The Moog can take 4 expression pedals.)

I would discourage the Stereo Polyphase because I hated the way it sounded. In mono, it sounded like the phase-shift sat on top of a cruddy, unaffected, fundamental tone, as if the dry and wet internal signals weren't mixed back together properly at the output. Same with the $400 Phantasm you mentioned. I was very interested in each due to their envelope features that could drive the phase-shift instead of the LFO. But instead, yuck.

For "vibey" phasers, check out the surprisingly versatile HBE, and for a smooth, subtle but drop-dead-gorgeous tone, check out the Red Witch Deluxe Moon.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

Im sure it's cool but for 3 bills I'd buy a reissue 74 Phase 90, a used Phase 100 and a 90's reissue Small Stone. and I'd have all the phaser I ever needed!
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I owned the Moog. It does not get vibey. The 12-stage setting is thick and lush but it is more musical on the 6-stage setting. Yes, the buffer is weird but you get level and drive knobs to tweak it a bit and I had to spend a lot of time doing that. The Aux output (when used for stereo) is weak compared to the main out.

It is one of only 3 phasers I know of that let you pick the freq range (sweep), the other 2 being the Subdecay Quasar and the Earthquaker Grand Orbiter. It was my favorite feature, and the parameter I most often chose to use with an expression pedal for a space-wah effect. (The Moog can take 4 expression pedals.)

I would discourage the Stereo Polyphase because I hated the way it sounded. In mono, it sounded like the phase-shift sat on top of a cruddy, unaffected, fundamental tone, as if the dry and wet internal signals weren't mixed back together properly at the output. Same with the $400 Phantasm you mentioned. I was very interested in each due to their envelope features that could drive the phase-shift instead of the LFO. But instead, yuck.

For "vibey" phasers, check out the surprisingly versatile HBE, and for a smooth, subtle but drop-dead-gorgeous tone, check out the Red Witch Deluxe Moon.

Thanks for your indepth insight into the phaser world.
Still wanna test a Moog, and see what i can get out of it !
Looks like the EHX ubits is not on the short list any more !
Red Witch - never looked into that one . . . gonna see what i can find about it.


Im sure it's cool but for 3 bills I'd buy a reissue 74 Phase 90, a used Phase 100 and a 90's reissue Small Stone. and I'd have all the phaser I ever needed!

I do like the Phase100 !!!
Better see how the Small Stone sound to my ears !


Thanx guys . . . keep 'em comming !


James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I love the Red Witch. Similar vibe to the Small Stone to my ears, but more tweakable and it's got a cool vibe approximation mode. The samples on the site are good.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I checked out some utoob demos of the Moog & it would seem that it can get kinda "MuRfy" to a degree... generate things that are more soundscape-ish and have nothing to do with a phaser. Not sure I need or would even want that, but if you dig it...

I've heard good things about the Pigtronix envelope phaser but haven't tried it myself... the Echolution, Mothership & Attack Sustain are all well-built, great sounding pedals for the soundscapers & anyone who wants to put the time into learning how to use them, not so much for the plug & play crowd.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I checked out some utoob demos of the Moog & it would seem that it can get kinda "MuRfy" to a degree... generate things that are more soundscape-ish and have nothing to do with a phaser. Not sure I need or would even want that, but if you dig it...

I've heard good things about the Pigtronix envelope phaser but haven't tried it myself... the Echolution, Mothership & Attack Sustain are all well-built, great sounding pedals for the soundscapers & anyone who wants to put the time into learning how to use them, not so much for the plug & play crowd.


Mmmmm, Pigtronix . . . never thought of them for Phaser units !
Thanks for the tip !
And i love to tweak and discover new sounds every day !



James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I've got original 70's versions of the MXR Phase 45, 90 and 100, and of those the 100 is my favorite for its tone and versatility, but if I was going to buy a modern phaser it would probably be a Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser. Incredibly versatile and sounds great. Well worth a look.

Here's a pic of my old MXR's

IMG_1412.jpg


Cheers.................................... wahwah
 
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Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I really like my HBE (check it out. I got my Psilocybe for $140 new), and I'd like another Small Stone, but the ones I gravitate to most often are my Phase 100 and especially my EVH Phase 90. Some folks don't like the EVH and I agree that the '74 Reissue sounds a "bit" nicer (but doesn't take an adapter), but I really-really love the script logo/block logo button on it; I spend equal time in each mode. It's a ubiquitous unit that you should try in addition to the Phase 100, Slow Groove. Don't give up on Phase 90s, even if you're not doing Van Halen. The EVH model will give you a good idea about them due to the "script/block" switch. A one-knobber that's been around 35 years should not be disregarded. It's comfy and brings grins. "The Rover", anyone?

The 2-stage Phase 45 will be hard to find but there are clones like the MojoHand Nebula. The Diamond and Whetstone models (check these out) have 2-stage modes I believe, and I think they even have asymmetrical settings for getting vibey.

The Red Witch is subtle. Nothing dramatic. But it has such a pleasing warmth, really soft. And it's big bucks. The PH-350 is designed for stereo, and--at least based on clips and forums--doesn't seem to be as "strong" of a mix in mono, but I haven't brought one home. As I understand it, it shines in stereo, but though it has a thick sound, especially in 10-stage mode (naturally), the thick sound has that "riding on top" characteristic in mono that stereo phasers all seem to exhibit in mono. But again, I haven't actually tested a PH-350.

As for the envelope-driven phasers (Pigtronix, Stereo Polyphase, Phantasm, Akai) the only ones I haven't sratched off my list are the Akai (can't find, out of production) and the Pigtronix EP-2, which isn't available yet. The EP-1 gets like-it-ok/hate-it reviews, but more importantly I haven't been able to find one to try even from Pig dealers. The EP-2 is promised as an improved version so I decided to wait.

As has been mentioned, a good Small Stone *and* Phase 90 will cover most of the kingdom. The HBE is a minor miracle though, and BOSS-priced. It's a tweaker, but it can imitate a 90 and much of the Stone's territory, as well as get asymmetrical and do undulant, detuned, wobbly vibe stuff. At faster speeds it's just like a tremolo! Playing in time with the rate will make you cry. It's not as tubular as a Phase 100 though. I haven't found anything besides a 100 that can do what the 100 does for that hollow hoo-hoo "Shattered" sound.

Slow Groove, is this for your sludge-rock doom stuff, or for some cleaner business? A word of caution, phasers are addictive. I want most of them, and there are so many! If I had to pick 2 only, it'd be a 100 and an HBE. I think those cover the most ground, both FET-based sounds and OTA/optical-based sounds -- most everything except heavy 12-stage phasing (Moog, PT-9 Pro). If I could only have 1 to cover the most ground, it would be an HBE Psilocybe. Yet my favorite is the EVH Phase 90. Opinions subject to change without notice.

I don't know if you've narrowed down whether you prefer FET or OTA, or how many stages, or how fast or cosmically slow you want to go, etc. but you did say you wanted a phaser that can do asymmetrical vibes. For that the overwhelming bang-for-buck answer is the HBE. But if you can, check out the Diamond and the Whetstone also, each of which has multi-stage features.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

btw, proguitarshop.com has some *very* good demo vids of a whole bunch of phasers

go there at some point with a cup of coffee/tea or adult beverage

I have watched them all, every single one - but the ones for the HBE and Subdecay Quasar are what made me go check those two out immediately after viewing/listening. (The Quasar seems to be out of production? The older black model I tried didn't work too well. But the purple one in the vid sounds great. The owner of Subdecay offered me a blem for $10 off ha-ha and his mkIII version still isn't available). I A/B'd the HBE for hours along with about 20 other units from all companies and eras in a private room with all kinds of amps, and using 3 guitars.

The HBE is just killer all around; price, flexibility, for cleans or distortion, vibeyness, yadda.
 
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Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I've got original 70's versions of the MXR Phase 45, 90 and 100, and of those the 100 is my favorite for its tone and versatility, but if I was going to buy a modern phaser it would probably be a Maxon PH-350 Rotary Phaser. Incredibly versatile and sounds great. Well worth a look.

Here's a pic of my old MXR's

Cheers.................................... wahwah


Thanx wahwah.
I am still looking at that 100 !



James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

I really like my HBE (check it out. I got my Psilocybe for $140 new), and I'd like another Small Stone, but the ones I gravitate to most often are my Phase 100 and especially my EVH Phase 90. Some folks don't like the EVH and I agree that the '74 Reissue sounds a "bit" nicer (but doesn't take an adapter), but I really-really love the script logo/block logo button on it; I spend equal time in each mode. It's a ubiquitous unit that you should try in addition to the Phase 100, Slow Groove. Don't give up on Phase 90s, even if you're not doing Van Halen. The EVH model will give you a good idea about them due to the "script/block" switch. A one-knobber that's been around 35 years should not be disregarded. It's comfy and brings grins. "The Rover", anyone?

The 2-stage Phase 45 will be hard to find but there are clones like the MojoHand Nebula. The Diamond and Whetstone models (check these out) have 2-stage modes I believe, and I think they even have asymmetrical settings for getting vibey.

The Red Witch is subtle. Nothing dramatic. But it has such a pleasing warmth, really soft. And it's big bucks. The PH-350 is designed for stereo, and--at least based on clips and forums--doesn't seem to be as "strong" of a mix in mono, but I haven't brought one home. As I understand it, it shines in stereo, but though it has a thick sound, especially in 10-stage mode (naturally), the thick sound has that "riding on top" characteristic in mono that stereo phasers all seem to exhibit in mono. But again, I haven't actually tested a PH-350.

As for the envelope-driven phasers (Pigtronix, Stereo Polyphase, Phantasm, Akai) the only ones I haven't sratched off my list are the Akai (can't find, out of production) and the Pigtronix EP-2, which isn't available yet. The EP-1 gets like-it-ok/hate-it reviews, but more importantly I haven't been able to find one to try even from Pig dealers. The EP-2 is promised as an improved version so I decided to wait.

As has been mentioned, a good Small Stone *and* Phase 90 will cover most of the kingdom. The HBE is a minor miracle though, and BOSS-priced. It's a tweaker, but it can imitate a 90 and much of the Stone's territory, as well as get asymmetrical and do undulant, detuned, wobbly vibe stuff. At faster speeds it's just like a tremolo! Playing in time with the rate will make you cry. It's not as tubular as a Phase 100 though. I haven't found anything besides a 100 that can do what the 100 does for that hollow hoo-hoo "Shattered" sound.

Slow Groove, is this for your sludge-rock doom stuff, or for some cleaner business? A word of caution, phasers are addictive. I want most of them, and there are so many! If I had to pick 2 only, it'd be a 100 and an HBE. I think those cover the most ground, both FET-based sounds and OTA/optical-based sounds -- most everything except heavy 12-stage phasing (Moog, PT-9 Pro). If I could only have 1 to cover the most ground, it would be an HBE Psilocybe. Yet my favorite is the EVH Phase 90. Opinions subject to change without notice.

I don't know if you've narrowed down whether you prefer FET or OTA, or how many stages, or how fast or cosmically slow you want to go, etc. but you did say you wanted a phaser that can do asymmetrical vibes. For that the overwhelming bang-for-buck answer is the HBE. But if you can, check out the Diamond and the Whetstone also, each of which has multi-stage features.

Thank you very much for your time to type this wealth of info !
Much appreciated !

Where to start ?
I wanted to get something for my Stoner-Sludge side of things, bit now, i am thinking of using phaser with the cleaner stuff too. Now remember, "clean" inmy book, is something like a BJr. cranked. i.e. there will always be s very light drive to the tone !

OK, so i am deff checking out the HBE units asap ! At that price it sound too good not too !
I did test the EHV sig model just when it came out, and did nothgin for me, ...but, saying that, i was NOT in the market for a phaser at the time. I was just carious to listen the the man's sig pedal. MMMmmm....
So, i shall revisit that one too.

YUP, that red Witch is pricey - yikes !
I did not know there is a MKII Pigtronix comming. Do we know how the EP-2 will differ , except maybe more expensive ?
Is the EHX Small Stone that good ? Never really looked into that one knobber ! May i should see what proguitarshop has to say about this one !

Oh and about the speed, i want some thing that can (among other things) go real slow !


Many Thanx
James
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

As for the envelope-driven phasers (Pigtronix, Stereo Polyphase, Phantasm, Akai) the only ones I haven't sratched off my list are the Akai (can't find, out of production) and the Pigtronix EP-2, which isn't available yet. The EP-1 gets like-it-ok/hate-it reviews, but more importantly I haven't been able to find one to try even from Pig dealers. The EP-2 is promised as an improved version so I decided to wait.

I have an Intelliphase... its cool. To be honest I hardly ever use the envelope mode. If I need the faster/slower/responding thing I have other boxes that do a much better job, like rocking the speed switch on a Leslie 122 or Motionsound cab. Not really a fair comparison though! And the phaser itself is really nice. The physical box is HUGE though. About 4 times the size of a phase 90 & twice as big as a phase 100.

The Pigtronix EP2 is a completely new design that AFAIK is far far off from being ready for public consumption. I wouldn't hold my breath for that one! Not everyone digs the Pigtronix pedals... one of my friends has all of 'em and loves 'em. I could go either way with the stuff I've tried... They all have a learning curve.
 
Re: In need of a phaser ! MOOG ?

YUP, that red Witch is pricey - yikes !

ya get what you pay for, it really does sound awesome, just won't get over the top

Is the EHX Small Stone that good ? Never really looked into that one knobber ! May i should see what proguitarshop has to say about this one !

it is as legendary as the 90, and the opposite end of the spectrum as the 90. The Phase 90 uses FETs, the SS does not. This is why these 2 are held up as the yin & yang of phaserdom.

Jean Michel Jarre and 1000 guitar players from the 70s depended on it. This and the 90 are the most used phasers ever, you've heard it on the radio a million times. It is actually the only EHx pedal I have ever liked. The Nano version fixes the noise and volume drop, but most Stone enthusiasts prefer earlier models, even with the noise and volume drop; some say the high arc of the sweep is smoother. Analogman may still have some of these older big box versions, but last I "heard" he was switching to selling only Nanos. I'm sure you could still send him an older model (there are 5 models) and he would still mod it.

In addition to the one knob for speed, there is a color switch that, when flipped up, adds a butt-ton of re-(de-?)generative feedback, which turns the thing into a hollow-in-the-middle super phaser. There are mods for turning the color switch into a potentiometer for getting sounds in between color up and color down.

I got a Nano Stone for $79 new.

Oh and about the speed, i want some thing that can (among other things) go real slow !

The Moog rules this. It is both the slowest and the fastest. And by slow I mean slow centuries for a single sweep, and by fast I mean incredibly fast, like ring mod emulation. It really is a nice unit -- I wish I still had mine.

The HBE, with the switches to the right, the regen all the way up, and the speed all the way down, is quite a cosmic creep, without getting hollow in the middle, which I like. The 90 and SS go pretty slow, too, but the HBE and 90 don't go as fast as the SS.
 
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