INGD: #4

[Seashore]

Way beyond my pay grade. I bet experienced Luthiers even have problems drilling two post anchors at exactly the right distance, perpendicular to body, and lined up with the neck. Seems like it would take a CNC.

Not for nothing, but all this takes is careful measuring and marking, and a decent drill press with the right bits. I'm not a luthier, but I did shop work like this for years (not on instruments) and even brought my guitars in to work on them after hours from time to time, including filling and redrilling holes for a TOM setup. I'm not saying you should keep the guitar, but if it came down to it, that issue should be easily fixable.

 

[Top-L]

Not for nothing, but all this takes is careful measuring and marking, and a decent drill press with the right bits. I'm not a luthier, but I did shop work like this for years (not on instruments) and even brought my guitars in to work on them after hours from time to time, including filling and redrilling holes for a TOM setup. I'm not saying you should keep the guitar, but if it came down to it, that issue should be easily fixable.

Thanks. You bring up a good point. I could probably find a luthier to fix it for a few hundred bucks. I think the repair would be visible as the inserts are under the paint.

I don't know if the knife edges on the trem are borked, so replacing the trem could be another 200-300.

Then the rout for the block would need to be enlarged so it doesn't hit the back.

I am going to send it back. I'm pretty sure the store will try to claim 15% restocking and shipping which is not insignificant. This is an ugly situation.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Way beyond my pay grade. I bet experienced Luthiers even have problems drilling two post anchors at exactly the right distance, perpendicular to body, and lined up with the neck. Seems like it would take a CNC.

Floyd posts seem to be installed wrong. Worst return to zero of any floyd guitar I've ever seen. Pull back and push forward are 20-30 cents off. Unplayable out of tune. I don't know if its because its been monkeyed with, because the posts are leaning back, or what.

If it otherwise stayed in tune, I would consider routing the trem block cavity and keeping it, but it doesnt stay in tune and it hits the cavity so it cant fully drop. I've checked the usual suspects for tuning instability and only thing I can come up with is the posts leaning, or maybe the knige edges of the trem are borked. (didn't do any disassembly)

This store knows its a problem guitar. They changed the string gauge, set it up with the trem angled back, yet still sent it to me.

The finish does have what looks like dust in the clear coat behind the bridge, that I thought was surface dust. Just a minor issue I would overlook on a good guitar.

Aww, sucks to hear, man. The guitar otherwise looked killer.

 

[Seashore]

Thanks. You bring up a good point. I could probably find a luthier to fix it for a few hundred bucks. I think the repair would be visible as the inserts are under the paint.

I don't know if the knife edges on the trem are borked, so replacing the trem could be another 200-300.

Then the rout for the block would need to be enlarged so it doesn't hit the back.

I am going to send it back. I'm pretty sure the store will try to claim 15% restocking and shipping which is not insignificant. This is an ugly situation.

You should definitely send it back. Sounds like a money pit. I don't think it's worth plowing any more into something that was supposed to be new and ready to go, unless you were already stuck with it or it was good enough in other ways to make it a keeper. If you were to repair it, if the holes get redrilled correctly, the rout for the bridge shouldn't be an issue, but enlarging it slightly is another thing that wouldn't take too long to do and wouldn't require specialized guitar tools. Bridge is another story. I have a floyd pro that would be great if the knife edges were sharp, but as it is, it's a $300 paperweight.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Top-L]

I just talked to The Music Farm. They seem pretty cool about it. They are looking into what they can do for me.

 

[Top-L]

Here are some short vids I made of the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4XG-X_zIaPc
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yiUK6k-us1M

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Jg77LQX_07Q

The last one is the clicking noise. I feel like that is responsible for the return to zero issue. Maybe a post is shifting?

Because the posts are not perpendicular to the body, I think its a lost cause trying to keep it in tune.

If it didn't have the clicking/RTZ issue, I would entertain finding a shorter sustain block, and routing the back cavity a little to make some clearance. Otherwise it is a pretty excellent guitar. But completely useless to me if it won't hold tune.

 

[Mincer]

Hmm, I'd still send it back. That's a lot of money to spend just to make it playable. I sent back a PRS SE this year because it wouldn't stay in tune. I could have fixed it (or found someone that would), but nope, not worth it to me. There are other choices out there.

 

[Top-L]

Yeah, I can't keep it. Here is a pic of the tone block in the cutout. The centerline of the cutout is near the front edge of the block. The block should be to the left of the centerline to give it room to move.

One thing I learned about non-recessed Floyds is that the tone block can be taller, which may give it better tone. This guitar has a 37mm block. The recessed Floyds I own have a 32mm block.

 

[Mincer]

That looks really close...

 

[ehdwuld]

drilling straight holes is an issue with hand power tools
not for a drill press (real woodworking equipment)

if you found a cabinet shop or a local old man with a shed and asked they could probably hook you up

the dowel for the hole is $5 for a 2 foot long rod at the Ace Hardware

matching size drill bit

drill out the existing holes the size of the dowel with that new bit you just bought

titebond that hardwood dowel in and pinch it off with some side cutter

now use a single razor blade to whittle it back to level

ready for the new straighter holes

EDIT

seeing the picture

frig it
send it back
get what ya want

 

[ehdwuld]

There is only one local dealer in nearest major city, and they only have usa models and customs.

There are three Guitar Centers in driving distance, but they dont have the guitars i want, and if they did they are floor models/ returns, so i wouldnt buy them anyway. Actually a local gc did have a floor model crackle, but i wasnt driving an hour to see it.

Guitar Center is worse than you imagine. The guitars within reach on bottom two rows are dented, grimy, and scratched up. they have boxed guitars, but usually only popular beginner models. Guitar center is more like a semi-used scratch and dent lot that they use to resell MF returns, with some expensive Gibsons hung out of reach. it didnt used to be that way.

Guitar Center ran out of business most of the local dealers, then their quality dropped like a rock. They have nib gadgets like fx processors, katana amps, tons of beginner guitars, some used gear, thats about it.

Stopped by the locak GC

All beginner packs and $3k Gibson's

Thats a slight exaggeration
There were some basses too

Wanted to look at one of the headless Ibanez
Nothing.

"Oh we never get anything like that"

If i want a Strat in black they got it!!

Or some Overpriced used stuff
There was an Epi LP that was listed within $40 of a brand new one

Hhhrumpppph!!!

 

[Top-L]

Hmm, I'd still send it back. That's a lot of money to spend just to make it playable. I sent back a PRS SE this year because it wouldn't stay in tune. I could have fixed it (or found someone that would), but nope, not worth it to me. There are other choices out there.

Did you get another PRS to replace it?

 

[Mincer]

Did you get another PRS to replace it?

No. In the end, I couldn't get on with the neck shape, and didn't love the guitar overall enough to keep trying. It was an interesting experiment.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I once got a PRS SE that had a hunch towards the last few frets. It was used, and kind of a scam, TBH, so no way of returning it. It was also a hump past the neck joint, so no way it was from lack of maintenance or mistreating the guitar.

It had a killer neck profile (wide thin with an unusual 14" fretboard radius for a PRS) and it was the only PRS SE I ever had that didn't have a washed out poorly figured top, so I decided to get it fixed. It did cost me, though. I had the luthier remove the last 5 frets, sand down the hump, and then refret those last few frets. In the end, it played great. I sold it like a month later, though, because it was Black Friday sale, and I wanted to buy an LTD EX-401, LOL. I do miss that PRS SE, but I also don't regret selling it, because that EX-401 was probably in the top 3 favorite guitars I've ever owned, and the PRS SE sounded good, but not fantastic. Kinda bright and wiry, IIRC, but I didn't spend all that much time with it.

 

[Top-L]

I once got a PRS SE that had a HUGE hunch towards the last few frets. It was used, and kind of a scam, TBH, so no way of returning it. It was also a hump past the neck joint, so no way it was from lack of maintenance or mistreating the guitar.

It had a killer neck profile (wide thin with an unusual 14" fretboard radius for a PRS) and it was the only PRS SE I ever had that didn't have a whashed out poorly figured top, so I decided to get it fixed. It did cost me, though. I had the luthier remove the last 5 frets, sand down the hump, and then refret those last few frets. In the end, it played great. I sold it like a month later, though, because it was Black Friday sale, and I wanted to buy an LTD EX-401, LOL. I do miss that PRS SE, but I also don't regret selling it, because that EX-401 was probably in the top 3 favorite guitars I've ever owned.

That hump over the heel can develop over time, afaict.

I bought a used Ibanez s540 that developed it (within a decade of its build), and instead of planing/refretting, the jumbo frets had enough meat for me to level them. Its currently one of my best playing guitars, despite a neck that is flawed. I didn't want to plane the upper board because I thought it would be visible in the binding, but if it ever needs new frets I will plane the board.

Regarding this new LTD, it would be worth fixing (routing cavity) if I knew the trem posts were solid and it had stable tuning. But it doesn't, it has a really bad return to zero issue.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

That hump over the heel can develop over time, afaict.

Really? How?

Because mine didn't look like the fretboard was lifting nor the neck. It was a set neck, so if the neck was lifting off the heel, there would be evidence in the finish, right?

Not saying it didn't happen to yours over time, but I don't think mine was something that developed over time.

 

[Top-L]

This just made me realize something about this LTD guitar...

If the trem is sitting too far back relative to the trem route, that means the posts are drilled farther back on the shelf, which means they may be in danger of breaking the wood and working free. It might be why its having tuning issues. Not even going to remove the trem to look, even though morbid curiosity may get me.

Not worth fixing this guitar... going back!!

 

[Top-L]

Really? How?

Because mine didn't look like the fretboard was lifting nor the neck. It was a set neck, so if the neck was lifting off the heel, there would be evidence in the finish, right?

Not saying it didn't happen to yours over time, but I don't think mine was something that developed over time.

You think it came from the factory like that? When the build the guitar, they plane the board so it starts out life flat.

I did some research on this, and a ski jump over the heel is not uncommon.

I believe what happens is that the guitars "bow profile" develops early relief after the heel, instead of a gradual curve along the length of the neck. So you are left with a neck that is mostly straight beyond the heel, but at the heel there is a rapid deflection and a "jump".

My cheap chinese Dean developed this over the decade of owning it. Sadly it has shorter frets so the guitar is pretty much done without a new neck or planing/refret.

I keep guitars for a long time so I get to see them develop issues over time.. Necks change over time, and the lower an action you use and the more you play a guitar, the more intimate understanding you have of it.

This is why plek jobs are a waste of money. They let you get ultimate low action, but after a season of changes you will never be as low again. Which is also why people complain about Gibson factory plek jobs. If they buy the guitar a year after it was plekked, there is a chance the neck changed.

 

[Top-L]

TheMusicFarm is getting back to me on Monday whether to ship it back to them or to ESP. So I had some time to try to figure out what is going on.

Why is the return to zero terrible? Why is the tone block hitting wood in the cavity?

Took off the Floyd to see what is going on.

1) The trem posts are leaning back 5* which is quite alot. This creates a few problems. Both posts are leaning back the same amount. Possibly they did this to hide the misalignment of the trem with the rout behind it? Either that, or they had the drill press misaligned by 5 degrees. Intentional? Would there be any valid reason for them to do this?

2) Someone adjusted the action without completely slacking the Floyd. There is evidence of twisting on the posts and on the knife edges which removed the chrome finish. I have seen worse, but someone along the way did this. Not me! I cleaned the posts (removed the debris) but I don't think this will fix it.

If the bridge is set perpendicular to the posts, it almost entirely eats up the pull back range of the Floyd. With the Floyd parallel with the body, it has 3 half steps of pull back, which is what I would expect.

 

[Mincer]

It isn't worth putting any more time into it. Move on.