INGD #5!

[Phantasmagoria]

Unbelievable man..

Must be very depressing.

There's not one of those guitars I would'nt have returned myself though. I can overlook really minor cosmetic issues etc with a new guitar (though I should'nt have to), but all of these had serious flaws that badly affected playability

The only thing left to do is to find some way to play them before..

 

[Mincer]

Be happy with what I have? Rewire one of my guitars with new pickups? Try to find a used JVM?

All of those are solid choices, and bound to be cheaper.

 

[Top-L]

The issues with the jacksons could have been bad luck, but the ltds, both sellers knew there were problems and they tried to unload them on me. The sweetwater guy was particularly evasive, hiding behind their 55 point inspection. The musicfarm guy answered my questions, but i didnt think it was necessary to ask if the trem was installed properly.

This particular model, the korean ones are built different than the indonesian ones, otherwise id have randomly ordered one from mf, zzounds, samash, and take my chances with a fresh nib.

I still want one..but i feel that they are all picked over. Maybe i just have to order one each from samash, zzounds, mf, alto, wherever, and hope i get a good korean one. I suspect they may all have problems.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Tbh, going from my recent (many) personal experiences with both new & used guitar's, I'd go with an Indo guitar over a Korean one these days every time..in fact if you factor in price I'd take them over Japanese one's as well. They're well made, great hardware & pup's, great woods, great finishes, sound, playability ..you name it, and all at great prices

I think you mentioned that at least a few of these past purchases of your's were in fact, Indo guitar's

The only explanation I can see for that and your run of 'bad luck' is, as you said, if they were trying to unloaded returns/duds/rejects/guitars with known issues on moron's.

 

[Mincer]

The issues with the jacksons could have been bad luck, but the ltds, both sellers knew there were problems and they tried to unload them on me. The sweetwater guy was particularly evasive, hiding behind their 55 point inspection. The musicfarm guy answered my questions, but i didnt think it was necessary to ask if the trem was installed properly.

This particular model, the korean ones are built different than the indonesian ones, otherwise id have randomly ordered one from mf, zzounds, samash, and take my chances with a fresh nib.

I still want one..but i feel that they are all picked over. Maybe i just have to order one each from samash, zzounds, mf, alto, wherever, and hope i get a good korean one. I suspect they may all have problems.

My guess is that the people answering the phones are nowhere near where the guitar is. And unless it is a super $$ purchase, they aren't going to track down the exact boxed guitar they are sending out. I don't think this is just Sweetwater..this goes for any high volume mail company.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I'd be inclined to believe that except $800-1000+ guitar's are generally pretty well made with decent QC (like I said, going by a lot of recent personal experience with Indo guitars like those, I have'nt had a single guitar with issues that come close to the ones his had) ) the ones he got were ALL practically unplayable.

Realistically speaking, what are the chances of that being sheer coincidence? Seems a lot more likely to me that a stockpile of unsold/returned/known shitty guitars are being unloaded onto those who (hopefully) don't know better...

 

[Top-L]

I'd be inclined to believe that except $800-1000+ guitar's are generally pretty well made with decent QC (like I said, going by a lot of recent personal experience with Indo guitars like those, I have'nt had a single guitar with issues that come close to the ones his had) ) the ones he got were ALL practically unplayable.

Realistically speaking, what are the chances of that being sheer coincidence? Seems a lot more likely to me that a stockpile of unsold/returned/known ****ty guitars are being unloaded onto those who (hopefully) don't know better...

My guess is that they get major shipments infrequently, and because of the economy, manufacturers have started repackaging/shipping B-stock or worse from their pile of guitars that didn't meet QC previously.

These have all had major problems that I have never seen before, even on cheap chinese guitars. Which is why I believe its related to the economy and not having good stock to sell.

 

[Mincer]

Yeah, I might avoid all of the brands of guitars you had shipped to you if that is what the factory OKs selling.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I could'nt say weo's responsible, manufacturer's retailers or whoever. It's just plain unethical to knowingly pass off unplayable guitars to customers paying full price. All I can say is they're definitely rejects of some kind.

I've bought enough Indo axes (and even way cheaper Chinese ones) in that price bracket in the last few years to be pretty sure that they don't normally come out of the factory with those sort of defects. and I'm inclined to think that even retailers doing '55 point' or w/e checks can't be blissfully unaware that these guitar's are in fact unplayable

 

[Top-L]

I could'nt say weo's responsible, manufacturer's retailers or whoever. It's just plain unethical to knowingly pass off unplayable guitars to customers paying full price. All I can say is they're definitely rejects of some kind.

I've bought enough Indo axes (and even way cheaper Chinese ones) in that price bracket in the last few years to be pretty sure that they don't normally come out of the factory with those sort of defects. and I'm inclined to think that even retailers doing '55 point' or w/e checks can't be blissfully unaware that these guitar's are in fact unplayable

They were "playable" but had major issues.

The Sweetwater one in particular bothered me because someone had raised the treble side action very high to make it appear that the problem wasn't as extreme. It might be that these sellers are using me as a way to return to manufacturer. There might be some stipulation that a guitar must be returned by customer some number of times before they can return to manufacturer for a refund.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Ugh. That really sucks man. Doesn't speak very highly of LTD. Or Sweetwater.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

They were "playable" but had major issues.

The Sweetwater one in particular bothered me because someone had raised the treble side action very high to make it appear that the problem wasn't as extreme. It might be that these sellers are using me as a way to return to manufacturer. There might be some stipulation that a guitar must be returned by customer some number of times before they can return to manufacturer for a refund.

Haha ..what intrigue..

 

[Top-L]

Ugh. That really sucks man. Doesn't speak very highly of LTD. Or Sweetwater.

I'm rethinking my opinion on the brand.

The two LTDs I have, the M400 has perfect construction, paint, and decent tone with some low growl. Rock solid trem. The only thing I don't like about it is the Pau Ferro fingerboard, and its the reason I don't grab that guitar very much. The wood itself is the right color, but appears to be finished behind some clear satin finish, so the fingerboard ends up looking indistinct, and the tiny dot fretmarkers don't give me much visual feedback. Its such a minor thing but aesthetics matter.

The M1000 needed some fretwork (acceptable), it has some tiny binding imperfections (acceptable), the top wood/veneer has been drinking clear coat so it has a wavy appearance (I know this happens on Suhrs and other guitars, so acceptable but not ideal), and the tone is muted/warm on top, maybe because of the veneer (but it has EMGs so when its plugged in it sounds good.) Has a great feeling/looking neck, rock solid trem, and its a good looking guitar, but its not inspirational.

The M1 customs had great unplugged tone, I loved how they looked, the necks were attractive, but both had severe manufacturing defects. I was hoping to get the M1 custom and then possibly sell one of the others which I don't play as much.

All Sweetwater is doing is photographing the guitars and pretending there is some sort of value added, when all they are doing is the same adjustments that the player would make when receiving it.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm rethinking my opinion on the brand.

The two LTDs I have, the M400 has perfect construction, paint, and decent tone with some low growl. Rock solid trem. The only thing I don't like about it is the Pau Ferro fingerboard, and its the reason I don't grab that guitar very much. The wood itself is the right color, but appears to be finished behind some clear satin finish, so the fingerboard ends up looking indistinct, and the tiny dot fretmarkers don't give me much visual feedback. Its such a minor thing but aesthetics matter.

The M1000 needed some fretwork (acceptable), it has some tiny binding imperfections (acceptable), the top wood/veneer has been drinking clear coat so it has a wavy appearance (I know this happens on Suhrs and other guitars, so acceptable but not ideal), and the tone is muted/warm on top, maybe because of the veneer (but it has EMGs so when its plugged in it sounds good.) Has a great feeling/looking neck, rock solid trem, and its a good looking guitar, but its not inspirational.

The M1 customs had great unplugged tone, I loved how they looked, the necks were attractive, but both had severe manufacturing defects. I was hoping to get the M1 custom and then possibly sell one of the others which I don't play as much.

All Sweetwater is doing is photographing the guitars and pretending there is some sort of value added, when all they are doing is the same adjustments that the player would make when receiving it.

None of my LTD's have ever been perfect, but I've had a couple of really extraordinary ones. However, I've never had a problem with how they play or sound. My EX that I think is the best LTD I've owned I think I remember having that issue with the fretboard being slightly angled, except not nearly as bad as yours. I'd say like 15-20% of the way yours is. But the guitar setup well, played great with low action (less than 1mm on the treble side), and sounded incredible, so I just let it go. It even had a Pau Ferro fretboard that I know nobody likes, but I still think it's better than the Laurel on my Epiphone (which I don't have a problem with either, TBH).



But you're right. You've had way worse luck with yours. Sucks to hear, man.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think I've had the same problem with PRS SE's that you've had with LTD's. Everybody says how amazing their QC is, and how they punch above their weight, but mine have all been underwhelming at best.

 

[Mincer]

I had issues with my PRS SE, too. And it went back.

 

[Top-L]

But you're right. You've had way worse luck with yours. Sucks to hear, man.

Of the four I purchased, two are keepers.

The other two had fundamental build problems, but otherwise were good quality. Leads me to believe they were B or C stock.