Interesting new Michael Kelly Patriot. (Dual JB's)

[esandes]

Forgot to mention also that even based on the pickups available at the time I would have chosen a Duncan Distortion over a JB for that tone, especially for solos.

the tone on that album is nothing you can take away from it or the JB. however Adam Jones' DD sounds are scintillating. both pickups are metal powerhouses. I have been a metal head since the 80s and I've seen a lot of guitarists come around to passive power after all of those years.

 

[Inflames626]

the tone on that album is nothing you can take away from it or the JB. however Adam Jones' DD sounds are scintillating. both pickups are metal powerhouses. I have been a metal head since the 80s and I've seen a lot of guitarists come around to passive power after all of those years.

I thought Adam used a JB? At least back in the early 90s.

Too loose in the bottom for me on the JB. I usually shelve it at 200 hz or so in standard tuning. Have to work a lot with the other settings to get it where it needs to be whereas other pickups work out of the box. I've used the JB before with an EMG HZ H4 (passive 81), and while the JB filled out the mix the HZ was more audible.

The JB is not going to touch anything like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFiDcazicdk

Fairly sure Mesh used Lundgren M8s on this, though, which are passive.

I much prefer active for this sound. Easier to install, more consistent tone due to the preamp.

Where I prefer passives is with the ability to do more complex wiring options.

I tend to only use the DD for solos because of all the bright high end and tend to use the Custom line for tracking rhythms due to increased clarity and a more balanced tone.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I once put a JB in the neck position of a PRS SE Paul Allender to match a Black Winter in the bridge.

Bad mistake.

The JB in the neck was unusuably dark. The only thing that it did well was slow leads high up the neck. For everything else, it was mud city. I even tried replacing the poles with Allen screws. No luck.

That was a very "aha!" moment for me. I realized the JB is often misunderstood. It's not really bright. It does have upper mids which, combined with the bite of the bridge position, stack up. But I never understood how people consider the JB harsh and then swap it out for a lower-wind PAF-type. Those are all way brighter! It also has a lot of low-mid grunt compared many other pickups.

 

[Clint 55]

^ That's my experience also. Anything hotter than the Demon at 10k is way too dark for me.

Note that the guitar comes stock with split switches for either pup. I would be using the neck JB split all the time.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

^ That's my experience also. Anything hotter than the Demon at 10k is way too dark for me.

Note that the guitar comes stock with split switches for either pup. I would be using the neck JB split all the time.

The DDn with A5 is kinda dark, but not mud city like the JB was.

I like dark-ish smooth-ish neck pickups, personally. But the JB was too much.

The bad thing about dark neck pickups is you lose the ability to do the sparkly neck clean sounds. The good thing is the middle position becomes a bit more interesting, IME. These days, I prefer middle position for cleans anyway.

And I bet the JB sounds great split. Well, as "great" as any standard humbucker can sound split. Even if it does sound great, good split/parallel alternate sounds are almost always a happy accident.

 

[marcello252]

the tone on that album is nothing you can take away from it or the JB. however Adam Jones' DD sounds are scintillating. both pickups are metal powerhouses. I have been a metal head since the 80s and I've seen a lot of guitarists come around to passive power after all of those years.

I think it's almost impossible to catch exactly what kind of pickup you hear in a record, I mean, you can hear the position and if it's a single or a humbucker, or it is a Jaguar or a Jazzmaster, (discerning from a les paul and another guitar with humbucker is already difficult).
there are so many parameters we do not know that it's like playing lottery, think about EVH for example, 45 years and still we are debating on what the hell he exactly used it on one record only.

the experience about pickups is something much more personal, you feel the differences under the fingertips, soundwise it's another movie, it's almost impossible.

 

[esandes]

I think it's almost impossible to catch exactly what kind of pickup you hear in a record, I mean, you can hear the position and if it's a single or a humbucker, or it is a Jaguar or a Jazzmaster, (discerning from a les paul and another guitar with humbucker is already difficult).
there are so many parameters we do not know that it's like playing lottery, think about EVH for example, 45 years and still we are debating on what the hell he exactly used it on one record only.

the experience about pickups is something much more personal, you feel the differences under the fingertips, soundwise it's another movie, it's almost impossible.

it's actually documented that the JB was used exclusively for megadeth's arguably best album.

on another tangent..what did EVH use for his best tone? those who know know. here's a hint..EL34 Marshall's with a custom overwound A2 SD pickup.

 

[marcello252]

it's actually documented that the JB was used exclusively for megadeth's arguably best album.

on another tangent..what did EVH use for his best tone? those who know know. here's a hint..EL34 Marshall's with a custom overwound A2 SD pickup.

I was saying something pretty different: You are not able to understand minimal differences in a studio recording, everyone who has been in a recording studio at least once knows that the sound recorded is unlikely what you actually heard playing, too many effects, reverb, compression, too many parameters, mod by some cm a mic position and you have two completely different sound, how could you catch a pickup from another in the same category ?
I was watching yesterday Beato's Andy Summers interview, in a point he isn't even sure if ina track it was one guitar or two....

 

[Inflames626]

I was saying something pretty different: You are not able to understand minimal differences in a studio recording, everyone who has been in a recording studio at least once knows that the sound recorded is unlikely what you actually heard playing, too many effects, reverb, compression, too many parameters, mod by some cm a mic position and you have two completely different sound, how could you catch a pickup from another in the same category ?
I was watching yesterday Beato's Andy Summers interview, in a point he isn't even sure if ina track it was one guitar or two....

I agree with marcello252. Unless we have detailed studio notes about what was done in post, we don't have the full story. And to me what an engineer does in post is more important than what is an artist is using.

Also, it is documented that Megadeth used a JB. But again, this is as common as people driving Toyota Corollas. They were a commonly used pickup at the time.

Marcello is also right about pickup choice being personal. I've played a JB. I don't like it for what I do. It requires too much tweaking for me to get it to sound the way I want it to, so I don't like it.

Megadeth's using it may encourage me to try it out, but that is hardly a decisive factor in whether or not I will use it. Even then, Mustaine (who was late to the endorsement party considering his fame) has not one but two signature JB derivatives--an active and a passive one.

Gear is increasingly meaningless. It's more about skillfully dialing in what you have.

 

[Inflames626]

The DDn with A5 is kinda dark, but not mud city like the JB was.

I like dark-ish smooth-ish neck pickups, personally. But the JB was too much.

The bad thing about dark neck pickups is you lose the ability to do the sparkly neck clean sounds. The good thing is the middle position becomes a bit more interesting, IME. These days, I prefer middle position for cleans anyway.

And I bet the JB sounds great split. Well, as "great" as any standard humbucker can sound split. Even if it does sound great, good split/parallel alternate sounds are almost always a happy accident.

I use different guitars for 1) bright cleans, 2) warm cleans, 3) hot solos from the neck. The only pickup I've found so far that can do all these in the neck is the C5 with a Triple Shot.

If I were to use the JB for cleans (which I wouldn't save in a live situation with a hot neck solo--people don't seem to be as particular in a live situation), I would run it parallel and maybe even out of phase to thin that bad boy out.

The JB is dark and hot for sure, but to me it's not that different than maybe trying an EMG 85 in that position. I have an EMG 89, which is similar to the EMG 85, but splits to an SA coil. The SA is great in the neck. So if you want that tone in a humbucking guitar, you kind of have to settle for an 85ish sound in the neck.

 

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker, that Allender is nice. How much movement do you get on the floating bridge? It seems very Fender-ish.

I've seen other floating bridge designs that seemed sound but didn't catch on. The sought after 90s Parker Fly guitars come to mind.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Rex_Rocker, that Allender is nice. How much movement do you get on the floating bridge? It seems very Fender-ish.

I've seen other floating bridge designs that seemed sound but didn't catch on. The sought after 90s Parker Fly guitars come to mind.

It was decent. It held tune fine. Not quite like a Floyd, but much better than my current Mexican Fender, for sure. It floated, but it certainly wasn't made for Dimesqueals as it's not recessed. But it did divebombs just fine. It was a Korean bridge, though. I've heard the USA bridge is much better as it's made of better materials.

The JB is dark and hot for sure, but to me it's not that different than maybe trying an EMG 85 in that position. I have an EMG 89, which is similar to the EMG 85, but splits to an SA coil. The SA is great in the neck. So if you want that tone in a humbucking guitar, you kind of have to settle for an 85ish sound in the neck.

That's what confused me. I agree, the 85 is dark in the neck, but it's not unusable to me like the JB was. The 85 is darker than the JB even, but I guess the low-end rolloff greatly helps it hold together in the neck better. Not sure. *shrug*
​

 

[Archer250]

Rust in Peace was 30+ years ago and is not a modern metal sound. The JB was used because it was then a popular pickup that was common, like the EMG 81 or DiMarzio Super Distortion.

Yes, mushy. They probably rolled off the lows in post with a hi pass filter to some degree.

Fairly sure they also used boosted Marshalls, which are not so much a modern amp for extreme metal vs. Mesa, Peavey, Diezel, Engl, Bogner, etc.

Also I've found the JB mushy in my personal experience. I go for EMG 81s in 24 volts, Blackouts, Full Shreds, and Parallel Axis pickups instead of the JB.

Modern metal is also 16ths at 200+ bpm, sometimes to 240, far in excess of 80s-early 90s thrash metal of the period.

The JB is a fine rock pickup at moderate tempos in the bridge, but I have other things I would use first, even the Duncan Custom line.

You can make up pickup deficiencies later in your signal chain. I happen to like the EMG HZs that many people consider anemic. But I compensate by adjusting the preamp as necessary.

Rust in Peace used Bogner racks through a VHT 2150 IIRC

In any case if I'm not mistaken, there was also a Sonic Maximizer in there which would scoop the troublesome JB mids.

 

[Artie]

In any case if I'm not mistaken, there was also a Sonic Maximizer in there which would scoop the troublesome JB mids.

That's interesting. I have several Sonic Maximizers. I don't perceive them as scooping mids. Then again, they do highlight highs and lows. I gotta listen again.