Intonation help PLEASE!

Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

So should I use a 12th fret harmonic rather than a note so I don't stretch the string and pull the note sharp?

That's what I've always done.

Actually, you are more likely to find issues such as these on a Gibson than an Epiphone

I never implied that Gibson was any better (or worse for that matter) at making a guitar than Epiphone. But I've never seen an issue like this on a PRS, Suhr, Grosh, Tyler, Music Man, etc.
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

Update: I tried it with harmonics and got all three of my guitars intonated in 10 minutes compared to 3 unsuccessful frustrating hours on one. I wasn't that far off. Thanks to everyone for the help. I like being able to service my own stuff, whatever it is.
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

So should I use a 12th fret harmonic rather than a note so I don't stretch the string and pull the note sharp?
No you use the 12th fret harmonic to tune the guitar because it is more stable then the open string and it is the same note as the one at the 12th fret.

Even better, leave your digital tuner in its box and use the harmonic at the 5th fret as a reference for the fretted note at the 19th fret on the next string up. This allows you to listen to both notes together.

Here's how it works.

Starting with the D and G strings, tune the strings so that the 5th fret harmonic on the D string is the same as the 7th fret harmonic on the G.

Compare the 5th fret harmonic on the D with the fretted note at the 19th fret on the G. They should be the same. If the fretted note sounds flat you need to shorten the vibrating length. i.e. move the saddle forward, towards the 12th fret. If it's sharp then you do the opposite. Do this incrementally and retune the G string after each adjustment until the fretted note at the 19th is the same as the 5th fret harmonic on the D.

There are some short cuts you can take. Once you have done the D and G, do the same thing with the top E and the B. Once you have the intonation right on the top E you can set the position of the B saddle pretty much by eye; it should occupy a position roughly half way between the G and the top E saddles.

Repeat the process with the A and D strings. As with the D and G, the fretted note at the D/19th should be the same as the harmonic at the A/5th.

Repeat with the low E and the A string. If you've done all this correctly, as an additional check you can use the harmonic at the 12th fret on each string to check the accuracy of the note at the 15th fret on the next string down. So the octave harmonic on the top E should be the same as the fretted note at B/15, the octave harmonic at B/12 should be the same as the fretted note at G/14 and so on.

The last piece of the puzzle is the low E string. If all is well, this saddle should sit back from the A saddle by a similar amount as the A saddle sits back from the D. Check it using the harmonic at the D/12th against the fretted note at low E/15th.

There are a couple of things to remember about this procedure. If you read the two articles I linked you to on inharmonicity and intonation tempering you will be aware that the same note played on different strings at different frets will have different voicings. Even if the fundamental frequencies of two such notes are in unison, the higher harmonics may not be, so completely beat free consonance between all the notes on the fingerboard is all but impossible.

Tuning a guitar by ear is a very Zen process. Practitioners of kyudo, the japanese art of Zen archery, describe it as "allowing the arrow to find the target" and assert that by concentrating too much on hitting the target, you will fail. I have found this to be the case with this as well. Listen too hard and you will find yourself being distracted by voicing dissonances. Instead, listen for the "rightness" of the unison and when it sounds right, it is. Trust your senses, they are very accurate, it's your brain that pulls all the tricks that deceive you so try to disengage it and listen to the sound in itself.
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

I never implied that Gibson was any better (or worse for that matter) at making a guitar than Epiphone. But I've never seen an issue like this on a PRS, Suhr, Grosh, Tyler, Music Man, etc.

No you're are quite correct that it is much less common on on higher end guitars. However although you may have never seen an issue such as this on one of these guitars, I have lived a little longer and seen a few more of them. I've seen a few dodgy PRSs and Music Mans (I really want to say Music Men!) and I can assure you that expenditure is no guarantee of competence...:wink:
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

The scale length should be the distance from the edge of the nut to the center crown of the 12th fret x2. If this is off you cannot intonnate.
Play the note NOT the harmonic @12. That angle means everything-
PC
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

The scale length should be the distance from the edge of the nut to the center crown of the 12th fret x2. If this is off you cannot intonnate.
Play the note NOT the harmonic @12

You use the harmonic at the 12th as a reference, because if the intonation is correct then the note at the 12th will be the same as the harmonic at the 12th.
 
Re: Intonation help PLEASE!

^^ Yup. But there is a slight diff in temperment we compensate on the angle.
Gnats do fart. Ask Buzzy lol
 
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