Invader question

B

buzzingfrets

New member
I've had an Invader pickup in my '85 MIJ Fender Stratocaster since 1990 and it's a sound that I love. I recently had an Invader installed in my 2021 Kramer "The 84" guitar. It originally had a JB. The sound/output of the Kramer "The 84" doesn't quite hold up no. Very disappointed. When played up against the Fender, the Kramer now sounds a bit twangy and does not have the output or bite of the Fender. The person that did the work on the Kramer insisted that he needed to cut some of the wood out in order for the Invader to fit in without the strings hitting the pole parts of the pickup. Since this discussion was over the phone, I said if that what needed to be done I agreed to let him do what he needed to do to make the pickup fit. Could the removal of the pickup cavity wood for this installation affect the sound of the Kramer? I took the Kramer back to the shop to ask some questions and noticed that the pickup was sitting way lower that the position of my Fender. I asked for the pickup to be raised higher and the tech said that he would have to place a piece of foam under the pickup to raise it higher, which he did. That did nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice? Why would a piece foam be needed to raise the pickup? I expected so much more out of this pickup/guitar combination.
 
The tech work sounds normal. Foam is used under the pickups in direct mount guitars like your 84 to compress under the bottom of the pickup and hold it in place. I've had to remove wood and add foam to get pickups sitting in the right spot before.

The wiring might be an issue though. Invaders are pretty powerful pickups and raising the height should have made a big difference in sound. Weak/twangy and low output means it might be wired in parallel, or possibly that it's a neck model Invader... I'm sure there are other possibilities too but that's where I'd start.
 
Check the wiring in the Kramer. Make sure both coils are working and that it isn't wired in parallel. The issues you are having shouldn't be happening with that pickup at all, no matter what wood was removed or what kind of wood it is.
 
buzzingfrets said:
When played up against the Fender, the Kramer now sounds a bit twangy and does not have the output or bite of the Fender.
Click to expand...

With a multimeter, try to check the DCR of the Invader from the output jack. It's supposed to be a 16.6k PU but from the output jack, it should measure 16k (if the volume is a 500k) or 15.5k (if the volume is a 250k).

More later, depending on the measurement obtained...
 
Hi, Just to reiterate what our brothers have already said...there is nothing thin or twangy about an Invader. You should be experiencing a greatly increased output with a mid scoop.
Invaders are terrific for taming honky Marshalls or the old Mesa Stilettos.

The invader is bonkers.

Good luck with this situation. The disappointment won't last long. This is very fixable.
 
I wouldn't call the Invader scooped, personally. At all. Bassy, yes. Dark, yes. But it's got tons of low mids, particularly.
 
Hi Everyone. I'm considering switching out the ceramic magnets on my modern Invader with Alnico 2 Rough Bar magnets. Does anyone know what the correct size would be?
Possibly 2.5 x .5 x .125? According to the main Seymour Duncan sit, the modern Invader has 3 magnets.
 
2.5" long x .5" wide x .25" thick is the size of the center magnet - Invader magnets are double thickness. The two side magnets (usually called "spacer" or "booster" mags) are the same length and thickness but they're narrower, about .25" wide. If you're going to switch them all out, getting single thickness (0.125") magnets is fine, but if the magnets aren't all the same thickness you'll need some kind of shim underneath to keep everything level.

I haven't seen double thick A2 or looked too hard for A2 spacers... maybe they're out there? I get magnets from Philadelphia Luthier and Mojotone. Cermag had good options but they're in the UK. Most spacer mags I see here are ceramic or A5. You can try combining different grades, or even put wood or plastic spacers in if you don't want the extra magnetic field boost from the side magnets. I guess a single thickness A2 in an Invader would be close to a JB2 with big cap screws.

Remember when you replace your magnets that the side magnets' polarity needs to repel the center magnet on both sides. So it's SN - NS - SN.
 
That ought to work for the center magnet. The spacer magnets on the sides are narrow. Maybe this image will help:

HB-6-String-Uncovered-Invader.gif

I'm not sure offhand where to find double thickness spacer magnets. You could start by swapping just the center mag and see how it sounds. What are you trying to get it to sound like?
 
buzzingfrets said:
I'm trying to get the modern Invader to sound similar to my late 80's invader. The modern invader is very midrange and doesn't have as much treble. This guy explains how they are not the same. Later in the video he recommended switching out the magnets. https://www.youtube.com/live/W5dlSLpRu1Q?si=MhLAKz8Cun6jA2sg&t=1847
Click to expand...

This vid also explains how such questions depend on the guitar used and involve multiple factors - including the inconsistency of magnets, which was a part of their mojo when RC bars were used.

That's why I stay open minded when I swap magnets: sometimes I just try a bunch of bars and stop when the pickup sounds to my liking, regardless of the alloy used and of the Gauss level that I've measured.

All that being said, I'm not sure that A2 will make an Invader less mid-centric. It might flatten its response and make it less focused, yes, because of the weaker magnetic field. But it should also increase its inductance and shift accordingly its resonance toward a lower frequency, making it potentially darker.

In such a situation, I wouldn't hesitate to experiment with the DiMarzio airing recipe evoked in this video. Airing weakens the magnetism even more and might flatten the response as wanted...
 
Seashore said:
That ought to work for the center magnet. The spacer magnets on the sides are narrow. Maybe this image will help:



I'm not sure offhand where to find double thickness spacer magnets. You could start by swapping just the center mag and see how it sounds. What are you trying to get it to sound like?
Click to expand...

Thank you. I will try the Alnico 5 that you suggested in the center. I just want a little big of what I get from my late 80's Invader in this modern model.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top