Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
- Thread starter Moonsorrow
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Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
A bit late to this party, but had to chime in:
All this talk about wood species and tone is really a bit "tone deaf" to me. Comparing two completely different make / model guitars, one with a poplar body (as a previous poster did), or saying something like all the poplar bodied MIM strats I've played sounded pretty dead is, I think, a bit short-sighted.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not flaming anyone, but, IMHO the main ingredients in guitar tone are the pickups and electronics, pedals, and amplifier. Not to mention strings (gauge and type); and old dirty worn out strings are going to contribute to a duller sounding instrument.
In my opinion, body wood species maybe counts for 10 to 15% of overall tone. I think the wood species of the fretboard counts for more than that of the body, because the strings come into direct contact with the fretboard when playing. I've heard that maple fretboards are a little snappier / brighter than rosewood. And ebony is maybe as dense as maple. Then we also have to consider the affect of the type and thickness of finish put onto the body itself (poly vs lacquer for example).
I agree that all / most MIM strats sound dull, if they have the stock pickups, regardless of the wood species of the body.
You also have to consider the electronics, namely the tone capacitor type and value and it's +/- tolerance.
So, to sum up, if I am to do a guitar build, say a strat or tele, I typically don't care about the wood species of the body. I prefer nice wood grain, maybe a stain, and a thin clear finish (wipe on tung oil or tru-oil), a decent neck. I will always build the wiring harness using high quality pots, caps, wire, switch. But what I think has the most impact on the final tone is the pickups. I'll do my research and use pro quality pickups (Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, Fender, Lace, etc, etc). And if I use humbuckers (whether full sized or stacked to fit single coil applications), I'll usually wire the guitar for push / pulls so that I can split coils (humbucker becomes single coil when push / pull is pulled). You can also wire for series / parallel, out of phase, etc.
So, great pickups, versatile wiring, and quality electronics. I also almost always use D'Addario or Ernie Ball 10's.
Then of course, play thru a decent tube amp and a few effects pedals.
Now, that's my recipe for shaping tone...
Thx for enduring my opinion, please feel free to blast me if you think I am way off on some of my points!
A bit late to this party, but had to chime in:
All this talk about wood species and tone is really a bit "tone deaf" to me. Comparing two completely different make / model guitars, one with a poplar body (as a previous poster did), or saying something like all the poplar bodied MIM strats I've played sounded pretty dead is, I think, a bit short-sighted.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not flaming anyone, but, IMHO the main ingredients in guitar tone are the pickups and electronics, pedals, and amplifier. Not to mention strings (gauge and type); and old dirty worn out strings are going to contribute to a duller sounding instrument.
In my opinion, body wood species maybe counts for 10 to 15% of overall tone. I think the wood species of the fretboard counts for more than that of the body, because the strings come into direct contact with the fretboard when playing. I've heard that maple fretboards are a little snappier / brighter than rosewood. And ebony is maybe as dense as maple. Then we also have to consider the affect of the type and thickness of finish put onto the body itself (poly vs lacquer for example).
I agree that all / most MIM strats sound dull, if they have the stock pickups, regardless of the wood species of the body.
You also have to consider the electronics, namely the tone capacitor type and value and it's +/- tolerance.
So, to sum up, if I am to do a guitar build, say a strat or tele, I typically don't care about the wood species of the body. I prefer nice wood grain, maybe a stain, and a thin clear finish (wipe on tung oil or tru-oil), a decent neck. I will always build the wiring harness using high quality pots, caps, wire, switch. But what I think has the most impact on the final tone is the pickups. I'll do my research and use pro quality pickups (Seymour Duncan, DiMarzio, Fender, Lace, etc, etc). And if I use humbuckers (whether full sized or stacked to fit single coil applications), I'll usually wire the guitar for push / pulls so that I can split coils (humbucker becomes single coil when push / pull is pulled). You can also wire for series / parallel, out of phase, etc.
So, great pickups, versatile wiring, and quality electronics. I also almost always use D'Addario or Ernie Ball 10's.
Then of course, play thru a decent tube amp and a few effects pedals.
Now, that's my recipe for shaping tone...
Thx for enduring my opinion, please feel free to blast me if you think I am way off on some of my points!
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Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
My experience here:
I have almost identical Music Man guitars. One is poplar, one is alder. The poplar one is super mid-heavy. I use a Custom 5 and a Jazz in that. The alder one uses a Custom Custom and Alnico II Pro. The poplar one is still much darker sounding.
My experience here:
I have almost identical Music Man guitars. One is poplar, one is alder. The poplar one is super mid-heavy. I use a Custom 5 and a Jazz in that. The alder one uses a Custom Custom and Alnico II Pro. The poplar one is still much darker sounding.
jtougas
New member
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
I've got an Ernie Ball USA Sub made from poplar, and a Squier 20th Anniversary Strat made from alder - they're not the same critter. The poplar has more low mids & mids than the alder, while the trebles are about the same.
Both great sounding guitars.
I've got an Ernie Ball USA Sub made from poplar, and a Squier 20th Anniversary Strat made from alder - they're not the same critter. The poplar has more low mids & mids than the alder, while the trebles are about the same.
Both great sounding guitars.
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
I'm not about to take a hard stance on what may end up being another "tonewood" debate but when someone mentions capacitor type as having more of an influence on tone than the wood ... I say just close the zombie thread for good before it becomes a resurrected sh*t show.
:fing2:
I'm not about to take a hard stance on what may end up being another "tonewood" debate but when someone mentions capacitor type as having more of an influence on tone than the wood ... I say just close the zombie thread for good before it becomes a resurrected sh*t show.
:fing2:
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
Yeah, my Music Man made of poplar is a USA SUB, too (in cinnamon!) and it is heavy, dense, and super dark.
Yeah, my Music Man made of poplar is a USA SUB, too (in cinnamon!) and it is heavy, dense, and super dark.
Drunken Bowling
New member
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
I have an '94 Peavey Predator made of poplar. It's got 3 single coils. The way I always thought of it was like an idealized Strat sound, especially in position 2.
It's in a sorry state because I've had it since 1995 and didn't take care of it very well. But it was awesome when it was new.
I have an '94 Peavey Predator made of poplar. It's got 3 single coils. The way I always thought of it was like an idealized Strat sound, especially in position 2.
It's in a sorry state because I've had it since 1995 and didn't take care of it very well. But it was awesome when it was new.
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
Here is another great site about the properties of various woods.
Here is another great site about the properties of various woods.
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
That is a good read.
It has so many,,,, takes awhile to scroll to the more relevant species for guitars but the descriptions are very good IMO,,and very detailed.
That is a good read.
It has so many,,,, takes awhile to scroll to the more relevant species for guitars but the descriptions are very good IMO,,and very detailed.
dpaterson
New member
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
For what it's worth:
I have two Jacksons that were identical in every single aspect save for body and fretboard i.e. one Poplar body with Rosewood fretboard and the other Alder body with Maple fretboard. Two extremely different sounding guitars i.e. Alder more open, warm, woody, resonant, and with very noticeably more mids. (also a lot lighter in weight). Just how much of a difference the fretboard makes I know not. But by "identical" I do mean "identical" in every sense of the word i.e. same hardware, same strings, same pickups, you get the picture. Every description I've read about the difference between Alder and Poplar describes these two guitars perfectly. And it's not the placebo effect neither i.e. up until very recently I thought they both had Poplar bodies (long story) but couldn't understand why the weight and tone difference. Guess I'm just posting because somebody above (quite correctly in my opinion) said that some of the comparisons are not quite what they should be i.e. not comparing like for like due to all the different variables. This comparison definitely a like for like comparison (save for the fretboards???).
Must admit that I was extremely surprised at just how much of a difference the wood makes (I have a Honduras Mahogany body on another guitar and this also a very different tone compared to the Jacksons). If asked at this time I would have to say it makes more of a difference than pickups (this based on very recent experience with this but, of course, this just my experience i.e. your’s may differ).
P.S.
Is Poplar known by another name in the article on the link posted above??? Cannot find it there and was not able to find other names as per Google for Poplar either on the link (which appears to be very comprehensive i.e. the best I've seen so I'd find it hard to believe that Poplar is just "missing in action" or excluded by mistake).
For what it's worth:
I have two Jacksons that were identical in every single aspect save for body and fretboard i.e. one Poplar body with Rosewood fretboard and the other Alder body with Maple fretboard. Two extremely different sounding guitars i.e. Alder more open, warm, woody, resonant, and with very noticeably more mids. (also a lot lighter in weight). Just how much of a difference the fretboard makes I know not. But by "identical" I do mean "identical" in every sense of the word i.e. same hardware, same strings, same pickups, you get the picture. Every description I've read about the difference between Alder and Poplar describes these two guitars perfectly. And it's not the placebo effect neither i.e. up until very recently I thought they both had Poplar bodies (long story) but couldn't understand why the weight and tone difference. Guess I'm just posting because somebody above (quite correctly in my opinion) said that some of the comparisons are not quite what they should be i.e. not comparing like for like due to all the different variables. This comparison definitely a like for like comparison (save for the fretboards???).
Must admit that I was extremely surprised at just how much of a difference the wood makes (I have a Honduras Mahogany body on another guitar and this also a very different tone compared to the Jacksons). If asked at this time I would have to say it makes more of a difference than pickups (this based on very recent experience with this but, of course, this just my experience i.e. your’s may differ).
P.S.
Is Poplar known by another name in the article on the link posted above??? Cannot find it there and was not able to find other names as per Google for Poplar either on the link (which appears to be very comprehensive i.e. the best I've seen so I'd find it hard to believe that Poplar is just "missing in action" or excluded by mistake).
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devastone
Well-known member
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
It doesn't seem to be covered - http://tonewooddatasource.weebly.com/list-of-woods-covered.html
Probably understandable, to many, poplar is not considered a suitable wood for guitars. I personally haven't tried it so I can't judge, but I will say that I really like basswood (especially with a maple top) which many, including the authors of the list, are not fans of.
It doesn't seem to be covered - http://tonewooddatasource.weebly.com/list-of-woods-covered.html
Probably understandable, to many, poplar is not considered a suitable wood for guitars. I personally haven't tried it so I can't judge, but I will say that I really like basswood (especially with a maple top) which many, including the authors of the list, are not fans of.
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
Most descriptions I've seen for Poplar claim that it's tonally similiar to Alder but I wonder if they just say that because they are close to the same hardness. Biggest "problem" may not be so much that that Poplar isn't suitable but rather that it's often got green, and/or grey streaks through it. That would kind of limit it to being used for solid color finishes.
I have a Godin "strat" that has a maple center block with poplar wings. It's fairly heavy. SSS pickups are direct mounts. Sounds like a strat but it's the only "strat" I own so it's not like I have something on hand to a-b it. Then again, not counting the pickups themselves, the direct mount pickups as opposed to a pickguard mount and the larger route may have more to do with any tonal differences than the body woods anyway.
Most descriptions I've seen for Poplar claim that it's tonally similiar to Alder but I wonder if they just say that because they are close to the same hardness. Biggest "problem" may not be so much that that Poplar isn't suitable but rather that it's often got green, and/or grey streaks through it. That would kind of limit it to being used for solid color finishes.
I have a Godin "strat" that has a maple center block with poplar wings. It's fairly heavy. SSS pickups are direct mounts. Sounds like a strat but it's the only "strat" I own so it's not like I have something on hand to a-b it. Then again, not counting the pickups themselves, the direct mount pickups as opposed to a pickguard mount and the larger route may have more to do with any tonal differences than the body woods anyway.
dpaterson
New member
Re: Is Poplar and Alder similar in tone?
Well on this topic I just noticed something that I never noticed before.
Was today doing some work on my black Jackson (Poplar) and strumming away with no amp. connected (never happens!!! LOL!!!). Something made me pick up my white Jackson (Alder) and do the same. And it just jumped out at me i.e. this "resonance" thing. The Alder seems to vibrate more and because of this the actual sound coming from the body is actually louder than with the Poplar (hope I'm explaining that in an understandable way) (bearing in mind these guitars are identical save for the pickups now and doing this test unplugged sure eliminates differences made by pickups). Did the same thing with my Blaze (Mahogany). Same result i.e. nowhere near as "resonant" as the Alder body of my white Jackson. And as many will probably know by now: I've been squealing because I'm lacking mids. on the black Jackson and Blaze ("thinner" sound from both compared to the white Jackson). Go figure. It's actually noticeable unplugged.
I personally think that there's a lot more to the wood than is credited (certainly more than I would have thought until a little while ago anyway).
Well on this topic I just noticed something that I never noticed before.
Was today doing some work on my black Jackson (Poplar) and strumming away with no amp. connected (never happens!!! LOL!!!). Something made me pick up my white Jackson (Alder) and do the same. And it just jumped out at me i.e. this "resonance" thing. The Alder seems to vibrate more and because of this the actual sound coming from the body is actually louder than with the Poplar (hope I'm explaining that in an understandable way) (bearing in mind these guitars are identical save for the pickups now and doing this test unplugged sure eliminates differences made by pickups). Did the same thing with my Blaze (Mahogany). Same result i.e. nowhere near as "resonant" as the Alder body of my white Jackson. And as many will probably know by now: I've been squealing because I'm lacking mids. on the black Jackson and Blaze ("thinner" sound from both compared to the white Jackson). Go figure. It's actually noticeable unplugged.
I personally think that there's a lot more to the wood than is credited (certainly more than I would have thought until a little while ago anyway).
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