Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
- Thread starter St_Genesius
- Start date
Butch Snyder
ObsoleteChickenPickingologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Hey any way I can help...
Seriously, I can draw and design but electronic wiring isn't really my strong suit....
ArtieToo said:Thanks Butch, and everyone else, but remember - I couldn't have made that diagram if you hadn't supplied the first diagram and Kent pointed out the errors. It was a team effort.
Artie
Hey any way I can help...
Seriously, I can draw and design but electronic wiring isn't really my strong suit....
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Very cool variation, Artie.
I found an insane deal on a duckbucker yesterday that I just couldn't pass up. That, with the Vintage Rails I've already got, means I'm 2/3rds of the way towards having the pickups for my 3-pickup Tele. Can't seem to ever find any Vintage Lead Tele stacks on eBay; might have to buy new.
I wonder if I could combine your alternate JD scheme with a three-positon mini toggle that would act as an off-on-only switch for the middle pickup....nah. Too complicated. Plus, having a pseudo-mid/bridge sound and an actual mid/bridge sound on the same guitar doesn't make that much sense.
Very cool variation, Artie.
I found an insane deal on a duckbucker yesterday that I just couldn't pass up. That, with the Vintage Rails I've already got, means I'm 2/3rds of the way towards having the pickups for my 3-pickup Tele. Can't seem to ever find any Vintage Lead Tele stacks on eBay; might have to buy new.
I wonder if I could combine your alternate JD scheme with a three-positon mini toggle that would act as an off-on-only switch for the middle pickup....nah. Too complicated. Plus, having a pseudo-mid/bridge sound and an actual mid/bridge sound on the same guitar doesn't make that much sense.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Hmmm . . . I don't think that would be complicated at all. Just add the switch to bring the middle hot to the "blue" lug on the volume. That would give you the ability to have neck/middle, neck/middle/bridge, and bridge/middle, not to mention the other two.
Could be very cool.
St_Genesius said:
Hmmm . . . I don't think that would be complicated at all. Just add the switch to bring the middle hot to the "blue" lug on the volume. That would give you the ability to have neck/middle, neck/middle/bridge, and bridge/middle, not to mention the other two.
Could be very cool.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
This position 4 thing below is what interests me -- can anybody boil the diagram down to the two pickups, the cap and the resistor in this "controlled degree of reversed phase"? It would be the coolest thing to be able to dial up a fairly decent "cluck" tone on an LP without having to put in a middle pickup.
Anyone who can do it, please e-mail me in case I forget about this thread...
Position FOUR:
By combining both pickups with a capacitor and resistor in a controlled degree of reversed phase, the guitar offers a bell-like, rich tone that echoes the classic Strat® sound. Until now, this sound could only be obtained by the use of the bridge and middle pickups on a typical Strat.
Butch Snyder said:
This position 4 thing below is what interests me -- can anybody boil the diagram down to the two pickups, the cap and the resistor in this "controlled degree of reversed phase"? It would be the coolest thing to be able to dial up a fairly decent "cluck" tone on an LP without having to put in a middle pickup.
Anyone who can do it, please e-mail me in case I forget about this thread...
Position FOUR:
By combining both pickups with a capacitor and resistor in a controlled degree of reversed phase, the guitar offers a bell-like, rich tone that echoes the classic Strat® sound. Until now, this sound could only be obtained by the use of the bridge and middle pickups on a typical Strat.
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
That would be an off-on, two position switch, no? If I'm understanding you (and I'm probably not, so apologies) I wouldn't be able to have ONLY the middle pickup with that setup, would I?
That would be an off-on, two position switch, no? If I'm understanding you (and I'm probably not, so apologies) I wouldn't be able to have ONLY the middle pickup with that setup, would I?
ArtieToo said:Hmmm . . . I don't think that would be complicated at all. Just add the switch to bring the middle hot to the "blue" lug on the volume. That would give you the ability to have neck/middle, neck/middle/bridge, and bridge/middle, not to mention the other two.
Could be very cool.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
This isn't really all that complicated once you figure it out. Here's what's happening:
Imagine two pups wired out-of-phase. They cancel each other out. But the cancellation happens mostly at the lower frequencies. As both pups go up in frequency, to two "tones" don't sync - ergo, don't cancel. You get no bass, little mids, and just high-end. Thats why I don't care for OOP tones.
Now we add that cap. That filters out the low frequencies - so they don't cancel. Mids still cancel somewhat, and highs never did. We have artificially created a "scooped" tone.
Now add in the resistor. That limits the amount of overall signal that cancels. So even less mids are cancelled.
The total overall affect is that we limit the amount of cancellation, and limit even that cancellation to a portion of the midrange.
As soon as I get my JD from Lew, I'll tell you how it sounds.
Artie
Zhangliqun said:
This isn't really all that complicated once you figure it out. Here's what's happening:
Imagine two pups wired out-of-phase. They cancel each other out. But the cancellation happens mostly at the lower frequencies. As both pups go up in frequency, to two "tones" don't sync - ergo, don't cancel. You get no bass, little mids, and just high-end. Thats why I don't care for OOP tones.
Now we add that cap. That filters out the low frequencies - so they don't cancel. Mids still cancel somewhat, and highs never did. We have artificially created a "scooped" tone.
Now add in the resistor. That limits the amount of overall signal that cancels. So even less mids are cancelled.
The total overall affect is that we limit the amount of cancellation, and limit even that cancellation to a portion of the midrange.
As soon as I get my JD from Lew, I'll tell you how it sounds.
Artie
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Thanks! One thing I like about your diagrams is that even though I'm an idiot, they seem to make sense. Now what I see here matches what I expected from your description: using the secondary toggle as a simple break in the circuit for the middle pup. Is there a way to do it that would allow for me to use the middle pup alone?
Thanks! One thing I like about your diagrams is that even though I'm an idiot, they seem to make sense. Now what I see here matches what I expected from your description: using the secondary toggle as a simple break in the circuit for the middle pup. Is there a way to do it that would allow for me to use the middle pup alone?
ArtieToo said:Kinda like this:
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Sure. See how there are two wires that go to the blue terminal of the volume control. One is the output of the superswitch, and one is the output of the "middle" switch. Eliminate the "middle" switch and connect those two wires using a standard "Alco" style 3-way toggle. One wire, the other wire, or both.
Edit: Like this:
Thats because I draw them so that even I can understand them. :laugh2:St_Genesius said:
St_Genesius said:
Sure. See how there are two wires that go to the blue terminal of the volume control. One is the output of the superswitch, and one is the output of the "middle" switch. Eliminate the "middle" switch and connect those two wires using a standard "Alco" style 3-way toggle. One wire, the other wire, or both.
Edit: Like this:
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St_Genesius
New member
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
yeah, I've seen that type of switch, same idea only arranged differently, but my problem was as it was shown it wouldn't work unless there were some *internal* connections going on. I figured it was just a smaller version of the switch to accomodate the tele control cavity.
Scott Miller said:
yeah, I've seen that type of switch, same idea only arranged differently, but my problem was as it was shown it wouldn't work unless there were some *internal* connections going on. I figured it was just a smaller version of the switch to accomodate the tele control cavity.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Kent; you're seeing the same things I did. It just doesn't make sense. I'd love to get one of those switches in my hand.
Also, did you notice the gray-ish/white-ish wire that seems to connect the hot lug of the output jack to the back of the volume pot? I thought that was odd too. Also, there's no ground connecting the volume and tone pots. Although, its possible that they intend to make that connection by using the metal of the control plate.
Artie
Kent; you're seeing the same things I did. It just doesn't make sense. I'd love to get one of those switches in my hand.
Also, did you notice the gray-ish/white-ish wire that seems to connect the hot lug of the output jack to the back of the volume pot? I thought that was odd too. Also, there's no ground connecting the volume and tone pots. Although, its possible that they intend to make that connection by using the metal of the control plate.
Artie
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Scott, and the other admins ... feel free to trash these in about a week if I can't seem to make it back to do it.
Kevin, on the switch normally a replacement part can be ordered thru an authorized Fender repair party no problem. If you're not set up as an AFR, then I'm sure one in your area could get one sideways for you.
Scott, and the other admins ... feel free to trash these in about a week if I can't seem to make it back to do it.
Kevin, on the switch normally a replacement part can be ordered thru an authorized Fender repair party no problem. If you're not set up as an AFR, then I'm sure one in your area could get one sideways for you.
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
I think some wires just got put in the wrong place visually ...
I just interpreted that as a shielded output line, just not depicted quite right ...
Yeah, it think that was the deal there ... still not totally sure the deal with the resistors other than a bit of isolation between the two pups, doesn't look like it would adjust the corner frequency of the filter any, and I can't see it doing anything to alter the phase shift thru the filter ... oh well, I'd love to get an exact answer from companies on things like this from time to time, you know the old -- Now, why did you guys do that? --that type of thing.
I still want to know what value/taper the pots are in the JD Tele, and what the stock value tone control cap is also?
ArtieToo said:
I think some wires just got put in the wrong place visually ...
I just interpreted that as a shielded output line, just not depicted quite right ...
Yeah, it think that was the deal there ... still not totally sure the deal with the resistors other than a bit of isolation between the two pups, doesn't look like it would adjust the corner frequency of the filter any, and I can't see it doing anything to alter the phase shift thru the filter ... oh well, I'd love to get an exact answer from companies on things like this from time to time, you know the old -- Now, why did you guys do that? --that type of thing.
I still want to know what value/taper the pots are in the JD Tele, and what the stock value tone control cap is also?
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Artie, one more question (sorry) since I'm buying some of the parts I'll need and something I read in a (admittedly, poorl;y written) book on guitar electronics last night has got me confused. For the mini-toggle in the last diagram you did, I was thinking that I would need a DPDT On/On/On switch. Am I wrong?
Artie, one more question (sorry) since I'm buying some of the parts I'll need and something I read in a (admittedly, poorl;y written) book on guitar electronics last night has got me confused. For the mini-toggle in the last diagram you did, I was thinking that I would need a DPDT On/On/On switch. Am I wrong?
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
I understand the basic idea, which is why I'm interested -- what I want to know is where do you solder the cap and the resistor (not on a super switch -- to use my application, a Les Paul). And you probably need to change the cap and res values for humbuckers I presume...?
ArtieToo said:This isn't really all that complicated once you figure it out. Here's what's happening:
Imagine two pups wired out-of-phase. They cancel each other out. But the cancellation happens mostly at the lower frequencies. As both pups go up in frequency, to two "tones" don't sync - ergo, don't cancel. You get no bass, little mids, and just high-end. Thats why I don't care for OOP tones.
Now we add that cap. That filters out the low frequencies - so they don't cancel. Mids still cancel somewhat, and highs never did. We have artificially created a "scooped" tone.
Now add in the resistor. That limits the amount of overall signal that cancels. So even less mids are cancelled.
The total overall affect is that we limit the amount of cancellation, and limit even that cancellation to a portion of the midrange.
As soon as I get my JD from Lew, I'll tell you how it sounds.
Artie
I understand the basic idea, which is why I'm interested -- what I want to know is where do you solder the cap and the resistor (not on a super switch -- to use my application, a Les Paul). And you probably need to change the cap and res values for humbuckers I presume...?
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Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Is the Jerry Donahue wiring scheme truly a mystery to the public?
Ok, here's the simple JD wiring. You simply reverse the phase of one pickup, and add the cap and resistors, like so:
Now keep in mind, JD wiring uses 6.2k resistors. You could make those anything. Even swap them for a 10k, or 25k pot. Then wire it like this and blend the pups:
Its important that you understand the basic concept, then go from there. Its the basis for my simple "sparkle-tone" mod that will be forthcoming.
Artie
Ok, here's the simple JD wiring. You simply reverse the phase of one pickup, and add the cap and resistors, like so:
Now keep in mind, JD wiring uses 6.2k resistors. You could make those anything. Even swap them for a 10k, or 25k pot. Then wire it like this and blend the pups:
Its important that you understand the basic concept, then go from there. Its the basis for my simple "sparkle-tone" mod that will be forthcoming.
Artie