Not exactly overly interested in getting some. More just curious but I have yet to see any discussion or real, non fanboy/"signature gear guy" reviews. I have a JB loaded guitar which I love and I've played Livewires a few times in music stores and have kind of liked those as well. Maybe a little compressed and grindy but seemed mighty and meaty. How do the Thrash Factors compare? Since their announcement I've been more than skeptical. Can anybody prove me wrong?
Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
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Silence Kid
New member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
The premise is all JBs were created equal, but some are more equal than others.
They could have called them the "1984," but that would be both the wrong artist and the wrong book.
The premise is all JBs were created equal, but some are more equal than others.
They could have called them the "1984," but that would be both the wrong artist and the wrong book.
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
I know the specs on the JB (like many other pickups) have changed over the years as manufacturing is streamlined and materials might differ. Does an old pickup sound like a new version of the same pickup? Probably not (from any company). I think these were modeled off of very specific versions.
I know the specs on the JB (like many other pickups) have changed over the years as manufacturing is streamlined and materials might differ. Does an old pickup sound like a new version of the same pickup? Probably not (from any company). I think these were modeled off of very specific versions.
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
Same sort of thing as Kerry Kings old 800 then
Same sort of thing as Kerry Kings old 800 then
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
That all makes sense. Obviously I'd have to try one to really know but is a JB that's not a JB going to sound like a custom JB or something else with JB flavours.
That all makes sense. Obviously I'd have to try one to really know but is a JB that's not a JB going to sound like a custom JB or something else with JB flavours.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
Not exactly.
Most amps these days are built with tighter component tolerances than 30 years ago. Lots of components with relatively loose tolerances = quite a range of variation in the end product. That's why original JCM800s all have the same basic sound, but you can end up with individual amps being quite different; a little more bass here, a little less gain there. The JCM800 reissues OTOH are extremely consistent; they don't sound as good as a really great original 800, but they sound better than a lot of the mediocre to poor originals.
With pickups there aren't nearly as many things to change, so the end variances are smaller. The best example (and largest change) I can think of is the magnet type; very early JBs used a roughcast A5, while newer ones use polished. I don't know if anyone knows when the change happened, but it almost certainly happened before Dave's JB was made as he received the Megadeth-logoed King V in mid/late 1986. I have an old, broken JB made before the baseplate change in '83 and it has a polished magnet.
Not exactly.
Most amps these days are built with tighter component tolerances than 30 years ago. Lots of components with relatively loose tolerances = quite a range of variation in the end product. That's why original JCM800s all have the same basic sound, but you can end up with individual amps being quite different; a little more bass here, a little less gain there. The JCM800 reissues OTOH are extremely consistent; they don't sound as good as a really great original 800, but they sound better than a lot of the mediocre to poor originals.
With pickups there aren't nearly as many things to change, so the end variances are smaller. The best example (and largest change) I can think of is the magnet type; very early JBs used a roughcast A5, while newer ones use polished. I don't know if anyone knows when the change happened, but it almost certainly happened before Dave's JB was made as he received the Megadeth-logoed King V in mid/late 1986. I have an old, broken JB made before the baseplate change in '83 and it has a polished magnet.
punchlinechar
New member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
He actually started using Jackson in 87 iirc. In any case, the thrash factor seems to be more than just a stock JB with a signature on it.
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He actually started using Jackson in 87 iirc. In any case, the thrash factor seems to be more than just a stock JB with a signature on it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Masta' C
Well-known member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
Dystrust was correct about 1986 and the Jackson thing...Mustaine got it right after recording Killing Is My Business. Naturally, this meant he used it throughout 1987
As for the timeframe when JBs started coming with polished mags, that was sometime around 1983. Although a few examples exist up to 1985-6, they are increasingly rare. I still have NOS versions of the JB straight from 1983, which I unsealed myself, that substantiate what Dystrust stated. Plus, I've sold literally dozens of vintage JBs from the '76-'86 time period (pretty sure I hold some kind of record), so you can trust me on this.
As for Mustaine's JB, supposedly it was wound a bit lighter and had a higher resonant peak than the "normal" JB, even though it was itself just a standard production model at the time.
Fluke? Perhaps. Sales Pitch? Definitely.
Either way, the Thrash Factor is a "tweaked" JB that recreates the out-of-tolerance character of Mustaine's personal pickup. I'd suspect that it takes on a little more of the Custom 5's hollowed mid voicing while staying firmly in the "JB" realm tonally and output-wise, though I haven't brought myself to try one yet.
Dystrust was correct about 1986 and the Jackson thing...Mustaine got it right after recording Killing Is My Business. Naturally, this meant he used it throughout 1987
As for the timeframe when JBs started coming with polished mags, that was sometime around 1983. Although a few examples exist up to 1985-6, they are increasingly rare. I still have NOS versions of the JB straight from 1983, which I unsealed myself, that substantiate what Dystrust stated. Plus, I've sold literally dozens of vintage JBs from the '76-'86 time period (pretty sure I hold some kind of record), so you can trust me on this.
As for Mustaine's JB, supposedly it was wound a bit lighter and had a higher resonant peak than the "normal" JB, even though it was itself just a standard production model at the time.
Fluke? Perhaps. Sales Pitch? Definitely.
Either way, the Thrash Factor is a "tweaked" JB that recreates the out-of-tolerance character of Mustaine's personal pickup. I'd suspect that it takes on a little more of the Custom 5's hollowed mid voicing while staying firmly in the "JB" realm tonally and output-wise, though I haven't brought myself to try one yet.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
Dave switched during the first part of the Peace Sells tour. The Megadeth logo King V is J2713, and you can see a picture of the original work order here; dated 08/26/86 and marked due 10/13/86. I saw an interview from that time period where Dave claimed that he broke two strings on his BC Rich Bich during the first song of a set and knew that he needed to find something different. I suppose that's possible, but since Peace Sells dropped on 09/19/86, I'm calling :bsflag: on Dave's "reason".
Dystrust was correct about 1986 and the Jackson thing...Mustaine got it right after recording Killing Is My Business. Naturally, this meant he used it throughout 1987
Dave switched during the first part of the Peace Sells tour. The Megadeth logo King V is J2713, and you can see a picture of the original work order here; dated 08/26/86 and marked due 10/13/86. I saw an interview from that time period where Dave claimed that he broke two strings on his BC Rich Bich during the first song of a set and knew that he needed to find something different. I suppose that's possible, but since Peace Sells dropped on 09/19/86, I'm calling :bsflag: on Dave's "reason".
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dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
My apologies; the forum appears to have eaten the rest of my post. I meant to say that I call B.S. on Dave's story since he appears to have ordered the guitar before the Peace Sells tour started. I suppose they may have played a few dates before the album dropped, but given the era he was probably drunk or high (or both) and in the mood to talk smack when he gave that interview.
I've also edited my earlier post for clarity.
My apologies; the forum appears to have eaten the rest of my post. I meant to say that I call B.S. on Dave's story since he appears to have ordered the guitar before the Peace Sells tour started. I suppose they may have played a few dates before the album dropped, but given the era he was probably drunk or high (or both) and in the mood to talk smack when he gave that interview.
I've also edited my earlier post for clarity.
Joey Voltage
New member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
This isn’t exactly true for this particular example. The 2203kk, and other 2203/4’s pre 1986 sound different because they are somewhat different. Marshall revamped the design a bit for his signature model, and all the re-issues are more focused on recreating models pre 1986. Back then Marshall was using components with the same type and tolerances as they largely do now. You only really see a lot of that inconsistency with Marshall in the 60’s and early 70’s, and I’ve seen my fair share of Marshall’s on my bench. The biggest reason kerry’s Amp sounds different is because around 1986, when they introduced the horizontal input 2203/4 models, Marshall changed things a little in the production. They adjusted some things in the power supply mostly to save costs probably, but secondary to make production more consistent between both 2203 and 2204 models. This adjustment to the power supply increased the supply voltage to preamp section by about 100V which resulted in a somewhat even brighter and tougher cleaner sound, with less compression at higher gain settings than the pre1986 vertical models.. The old vertical models had a pre voltage of roughly 280vdc which does brown things out a bit. whereas these models had one of over 380vdc. This continued until it was discontinued in 89 or 90. All the horizontal input amps from this period have the higher preamp voltages, and sound brighter and cleaner like kerry’s Original 2203.
I owned a red ‘86 at one point when I was much younger, and could never figure out why it didn’t sound the way other 2203’s did. It didn’t have the juiciness I expected, and was cold and stiff instead. I figured the lore was true. It wasn’t until I first started out in electronics that I took look at what was really going on, instead of just matching parts for parts. And that’s when I found that difference. Dropped the voltage to the preamp to pre ‘86 spec’s And there it was! The amp was stolen from me later. Don’t blame them, still bitter though.
This isn’t exactly true for this particular example. The 2203kk, and other 2203/4’s pre 1986 sound different because they are somewhat different. Marshall revamped the design a bit for his signature model, and all the re-issues are more focused on recreating models pre 1986. Back then Marshall was using components with the same type and tolerances as they largely do now. You only really see a lot of that inconsistency with Marshall in the 60’s and early 70’s, and I’ve seen my fair share of Marshall’s on my bench. The biggest reason kerry’s Amp sounds different is because around 1986, when they introduced the horizontal input 2203/4 models, Marshall changed things a little in the production. They adjusted some things in the power supply mostly to save costs probably, but secondary to make production more consistent between both 2203 and 2204 models. This adjustment to the power supply increased the supply voltage to preamp section by about 100V which resulted in a somewhat even brighter and tougher cleaner sound, with less compression at higher gain settings than the pre1986 vertical models.. The old vertical models had a pre voltage of roughly 280vdc which does brown things out a bit. whereas these models had one of over 380vdc. This continued until it was discontinued in 89 or 90. All the horizontal input amps from this period have the higher preamp voltages, and sound brighter and cleaner like kerry’s Original 2203.
I owned a red ‘86 at one point when I was much younger, and could never figure out why it didn’t sound the way other 2203’s did. It didn’t have the juiciness I expected, and was cold and stiff instead. I figured the lore was true. It wasn’t until I first started out in electronics that I took look at what was really going on, instead of just matching parts for parts. And that’s when I found that difference. Dropped the voltage to the preamp to pre ‘86 spec’s And there it was! The amp was stolen from me later. Don’t blame them, still bitter though.
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dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
I'd heard that the power supply change only applies to post-'84 2203s; supposedly the 2204 spec didn't change.
I suppose I should've been more clear, but I've played a bunch of 800s across all eras and they do vary a bit as far as overall tone. Most of the ones I didn't like were horizontal input 2203s, so that matches your observation. I don't recall playing a bad horizontal input 2204, nor do I remember any particularly great ones either; most of the horizontal input amps were very mediocre in the grand scheme of things. The two best single channel JCM800s I remember were a 2203 from late '81 and a custom color white 2204 from '82.
I'd heard that the power supply change only applies to post-'84 2203s; supposedly the 2204 spec didn't change.
I suppose I should've been more clear, but I've played a bunch of 800s across all eras and they do vary a bit as far as overall tone. Most of the ones I didn't like were horizontal input 2203s, so that matches your observation. I don't recall playing a bad horizontal input 2204, nor do I remember any particularly great ones either; most of the horizontal input amps were very mediocre in the grand scheme of things. The two best single channel JCM800s I remember were a 2203 from late '81 and a custom color white 2204 from '82.
Re: Is the Thrash Factor just a JB with a signature on it?
I heard that when Kerry sent his original JCM to the factory to get it checked out it came back saying that it didn't just land within the set range, it dead on whatever specs they check out as part of quality control. Could also just be KK talking up his gear before releasing his signature but that's I was making the "more equal" comparison.
I heard that when Kerry sent his original JCM to the factory to get it checked out it came back saying that it didn't just land within the set range, it dead on whatever specs they check out as part of quality control. Could also just be KK talking up his gear before releasing his signature but that's I was making the "more equal" comparison.
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