James Hetfield's (possibly custom) Duncans?

[Hehasthejazzhands]

So on another forum, there was a nerd-out session about whether or not James used off-the-shelf Invaders on the first 3 Metallica albums, and the conclusion we came to is that no, he didn't. It appears to be some custom-made pickups with 2 rows of slugs. They're in the Electra V, the "So What" 1984 Explorer, and the Jackson King V. There's some pictures where the Electra does indeed have Invaders, but those pictures are from mid '90s and 2007, and the More Beer 1984 Explorer also had similar looking pickups, but they're Tom Andersons (Quarter pound sized slugs and fiber bobbins, vs standard slugs and plastic bobbins

There's apparently some threads where it's claimed that James did order some custom pickups through SD, so I'm just wondering if there's some info floating around here? Seems like a lot of those really old threads got nuked. I'm just looking to scratch this curiosity itch lol.

 

[beaubrummels]

I'm finding old threads since 2004 are still there. Some reading material for you...

11/30/04
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/22546-pickups-and-hetfield

10/05/07
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...3108-what-pickup-did-metallica-use-before-emg

04/09/10
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/193197-i-want-an-80-s-metallica-sound

10/22/13
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...pickup-for-thrash-metal?p=4529664#post4529664

01/16/16
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/301442-jb-vs-custom-for-thrash-metal/page2

04/07/17
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/315536-any-secret-custom-shop-pickups

I personally don't know, but what I've been reading is the dual screw pickup was a Gibson Dirty Fingers. Invaders are obvious. Some speculated the Electra was just stock foreign cheap pickups because they were using boosted Marshall rigs and the pickups didn't matter so much (in the author's opinion.)

 

[Hehasthejazzhands]

I'm finding old threads since 2004 are still there. Some reading material for you...

11/30/04
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/22546-pickups-and-hetfield

10/05/07
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...3108-what-pickup-did-metallica-use-before-emg

04/09/10
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/193197-i-want-an-80-s-metallica-sound

10/22/13
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...pickup-for-thrash-metal?p=4529664#post4529664

01/16/16
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/301442-jb-vs-custom-for-thrash-metal/page2

04/07/17
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/315536-any-secret-custom-shop-pickups

I personally don't know, but what I've been reading is the dual screw pickup was a Gibson Dirty Fingers. Invaders are obvious. Some speculated the Electra was just stock foreign cheap pickups because they were using boosted Marshall rigs and the pickups didn't matter so much (in the author's opinion.)

Judging by pictures the Electra did indeed have the shitty stock pickup in the bridge at least. it's white like they were in the catalog pictures. Then it looks like he covered it with black Sharpie or paint since you can still see the white peaking through at an angle.

And yes the neck pickup of the Electra had 12 fillister screw polepieces. Not sure if that was also some custom Duncan deal or if it was a Dirty Fingers they found lying around.

Also yes I've seen those thread, but I was hoping for something a bit more definitive. I saw someone say they had proof MJ herself confirmed Hetfield had some custom pickups wound, but yknow, no proof or anything lol.

 

[beaubrummels]

The way to resolve that is just ask the Custom Shop directly if they did a custom pickup for Hetfield back in the day, would they still make it and how much would that cost.

 

[AdrianSD]

I saw someone say they had proof MJ herself confirmed Hetfield had some custom pickups wound, but yknow, no proof or anything lol.

One of the problems with the internet. Get more people to repeat the same thing and it will become fact.

 

[Masta' C]

Hetfield probably grabbed whatever pickups his local guitar store had on the shelf that were deemed "high output" for metal. The Invaders were relatively new at the time and easily the most powerful pickup Duncan offered back then.

Can't imagine a broke 20-year old thrash guitarist playing a knock-off Gibson being like "you know, I dig the core tone of the Invaders, but I'd really love something with a touch more high end presence and a little more clarity in the lower midrange...I think I'll give ol' MJ down at the SD Custom Shop a call and see if she can brew up something special for me!".

I mean, bro played stock EMGs for 25 years, LOL!

:lmao:

 

[AdrianSD]

Isn't it amazing that the best tones everyone is batsh^t crazy about these days come from an era when the endorsements were very much non-existent and the choice of guitars, amps, pickups or pedals was quite limited? We're all busier discussing tone than the music.
TBH I never got the VH-1 magic tone craze. When did that start, how and why are people still carrying on? It's just another guitar tone, Eddie was a great player, probably the greatest post Hendrix and his chops were the magic sauce. Similar for RTL, Hetfield could chug on a log with horse hair as strings and still could make it sound great!
I just don't get this "how to sound like XYZ" bulls%#t, it's an absolute waste of time. And I just wasted even more time ranting about it

 

[weepingminotaur]

Isn't it amazing that the best tones everyone is batsh^t crazy about these days come from an era when the endorsements were very much non-existent and the choice of guitars, amps, pickups or pedals was quite limited? We're all busier discussing tone than the music.
TBH I never got the VH-1 magic tone craze. When did that start, how and why are people still carrying on? It's just another guitar tone, Eddie was a great player, probably the greatest post Hendrix and his chops were the magic sauce. Similar for RTL, Hetfield could chug on a log with horse hair as strings and still could make it sound great!
I just don't get this "how to sound like XYZ" bulls%#t, it's an absolute waste of time. And I just wasted even more time ranting about it

Well said. Tone-chasing makes gear companies money, and it's easier to buy another amp or guitar or pedal or pickup than it is to practice and improve as a player.

Now, can gear get you in the ballpark? Sure. If you want to sound like James Hetfield, playing (for example) an SSS guitar with fuzz distortion isn't going to cut it. But we're talking ballpark -- aka, broad strokes. Once you have a HH guitar with medium-to-high-output quality pickups and your sound dialled in on the amp, you'll be close enough for government work. You can go down a rabbit hole chasing tone forever, but at the end of the day, if you can't handle the fast legato chord changes in "Master of Puppets" or the stop-start riffing in the second part of "One," your gear won't matter.

 

[Aceman]

I have said this a million times;

Want to sound like DeMartini - get a JB. Lynch? Distortion. Slash - A2P. So on and so forth. An early 80's Guitar for the Practicing Musician will tell you everything you really need to know.

It really is that easy.

 

[Binnerscot]

I have said this a million times;

Want to sound like DeMartini - get a JB. Lynch? Distortion. Slash - A2P. So on and so forth. An early 80's Guitar for the Practicing Musician will tell you everything you really need to know.

It really is that easy.

Can't disagree. A lot of stuff wasn't that secret or difficult, just not inexpensive or at the local store for young guys at the time. EVH was the only odd ball.... anyone plugging into a plexi can tell there was some secret sauce with Ed, mostly his playing.... but some gear things too.

 

[jeremy]

evh was notorious for allowing bs rumors of how he got his tone to be thrown around, he might have even encouraged some of the untruths over the years

 

[Binnerscot]

evh was notorious for allowing bs rumors of how he got his tone to be thrown around, he might have even encouraged some of the untruths over the years

That he did, he was a little shit. One little note I picked up from a Pete Thorn/Dave Friedman geek session was that Ed's Plexi was stock except for a manufacturing variance. The mid control pot was out of spec, at a higher value, per Friedman. If Ed ran everything on 10, which is highly plausible, that mid pot would have brought a good bit of life to that sound that wasn't common to a Plexi - add in the dropped voltage, and the tweaked aspects of DiMarzio Super Distortion clone and/or the Duncan '78, his phrasing and style, and there it is.

 

[uOpt]

This fits:

 

[Coma]

One of the problems with the internet. Get more people to repeat the same thing and it will become fact.

Just the other day I heard someone quip "the issue with AIs is that they use what people say on the internet as training data, and no one on the internet has ever admitted to being wrong".

 

[idsnowdog]

They were sleeping on their friends' couches at that time, so they weren't working with anyone's custom shop.

 

[xxxplorer]

I got into EMGs because of Het. Then out grew them. Honestly find their tone not that hard to cope. More about how you hit the strings and where than worrying about exact pickups as long as you have the amp dialed right.

 

[Masta' C]

They were sleeping on their friends' couches at that time, so they weren't working with anyone's custom shop.

Exactly this. Dude was using whatever came stock in his guitars or was available at the local shop. Nothing "special" during those early years.

By the time they had momentum as a band and actual money to spend, they were playing EMGs...stock EMGs available at the same local shop. Again, nothing "special".

 

[Juanhanglo]

Isn't it amazing that the best tones everyone is batsh^t crazy about these days come from an era when the endorsements were very much non-existent and the choice of guitars, amps, pickups or pedals was quite limited? We're all busier discussing tone than the music.
TBH I never got the VH-1 magic tone craze. When did that start, how and why are people still carrying on? It's just another guitar tone, Eddie was a great player, probably the greatest post Hendrix and his chops were the magic sauce. Similar for RTL, Hetfield could chug on a log with horse hair as strings and still could make it sound great!
I just don't get this "how to sound like XYZ" bulls%#t, it's an absolute waste of time. And I just wasted even more time ranting about it

Well said. Tone-chasing makes gear companies money, and it's easier to buy another amp or guitar or pedal or pickup than it is to practice and improve as a player.

Now, can gear get you in the ballpark? Sure. If you want to sound like James Hetfield, playing (for example) an SSS guitar with fuzz distortion isn't going to cut it. But we're talking ballpark -- aka, broad strokes. Once you have a HH guitar with medium-to-high-output quality pickups and your sound dialled in on the amp, you'll be close enough for government work. You can go down a rabbit hole chasing tone forever, but at the end of the day, if you can't handle the fast legato chord changes in "Master of Puppets" or the stop-start riffing in the second part of "One," your gear won't matter.

Can I pile on?

Not only are they chasing tones from stock 80s "crap", they're chasing low budget, get in and get out recordings of said tones.

I'm all about ball park. Eq and gain structure can do some of the heavy lifting here.

If im playing someone else's music, I at least gotta put my own personality into it.
I use my own tone for example.
I also change fingerings, positions, registers to suit my strengths.

I don't like learning solos note for note either. I like to play around with things a little while still hitting the key points.

 

[weepingminotaur]

Can I pile on?

Not only are they chasing tones from stock 80s "crap", they're chasing low budget, get in and get out recordings of said tones.

I'm all about ball park. Eq and gain structure can do some of the heavy lifting here.

If im playing someone else's music, I at least gotta put my own personality into it.
I use my own tone for example.
I also change fingerings, positions, registers to suit my strengths.

I don't like learning solos note for note either. I like to play around with things a little while still hitting the key points.

Oh, absolutely. Voicing, fingerings, and positions are important. I generally replicate what's in the tab if I trust it, but sometimes I have to make a change because my ears tell me a different story or my fingers are uncomfortable with the way a riff is played, or both.

And there are certainly guitar tones on iconic records, but I don't find all of them worth emulating. The tone on Rust In Peace? Yes, please, and I will adjust gain structure and EQ on my amp until it's there. The tone on And Justice For All? Love it on the recording, would never want to have that tone myself. I'm a mid-forward guy, so the whole '80s thrash scoop your mids craze isn't for me, much as I love a lot of that music.

 

[Binnerscot]

Oh, absolutely. Voicing, fingerings, and positions are important. I generally replicate what's in the tab if I trust it, but sometimes I have to make a change because my ears tell me a different story or my fingers are uncomfortable with the way a riff is played, or both.

And there are certainly guitar tones on iconic records, but I don't find all of them worth emulating. The tone on Rust In Peace? Yes, please, and I will adjust gain structure and EQ on my amp until it's there. The tone on And Justice For All? Love it on the recording, would never want to have that tone myself. I'm a mid-forward guy, so the whole '80s thrash scoop your mids craze isn't for me, much as I love a lot of that music.

I love the percussive nature and attack of the sound on AJFA, but playing it is horrible. Love the expressive mids on Rust in Peace, but it's a muddy, undefined mess playing it with that tone. EVH tone on the early albums is so good, it works for those types of playing with an amp that does what he did on 10, but go to 11. Punch, bite, defined, vocal. Alice in Chains got to tones that worked really well across the board.