Obsessive Compulsive
New member
Re: Jazz boxes
Just because you insert natural 3rd and 6th into that worn-out E pentatonic lick doesn't make it sound jazzy you know. Frank Zappa is said to play jazz among other styles. But all I hear is just visceral strings of notes with no particular key center. 'Hot Rats' in particular is not fusion. It's more like folk music by Mamas and Papas.
Just because you insert natural 3rd and 6th into that worn-out E pentatonic lick doesn't make it sound jazzy you know. Frank Zappa is said to play jazz among other styles. But all I hear is just visceral strings of notes with no particular key center. 'Hot Rats' in particular is not fusion. It's more like folk music by Mamas and Papas.
Blille
Well-known member
Re: Jazz boxes
You must have a Mamas and the Papas album I don't have.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You must have a Mamas and the Papas album I don't have.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obsessive Compulsive
New member
Blille
Well-known member
Re: Jazz boxes
Hot rats is one of my favorite albums and I used to play fusion about 20 yrs ago.
I was just trying to avoid being confrontational and use humor but since that didn't work I guess I'll just say I disagree with you. I believe that Zappa did play jazz, among a billion other styles. What made him awesome was that he could bridge all styles and move between rock, jazz, classical and doowop in a song.
Of course it's all a matter of opinion, so here's a couple of things I'll mention:
- He's in Downbeat magazine's hall of fame, between Lester Young and Joe Zawinul. http://downbeat.com/archives/detail/downbeat-hall-of-fame
- Re. Hot rats and peaches en regalia in particular:
From Wikipedia: "Peaches en Regalia" is an instrumental jazz fusion composition by Frank Zappa. "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaches_en_Regalia
- This doesn't look like folk or Mamas and the Papas to me frankly:
- Note that the above is from a Real Book, where you usually find Jazz Standards
You want to call it prog rock? Sure. I don't think arguing over labels is a good use of time. But the man played more than 3rds and 6ths.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hot rats is one of my favorite albums and I used to play fusion about 20 yrs ago.
I was just trying to avoid being confrontational and use humor but since that didn't work I guess I'll just say I disagree with you. I believe that Zappa did play jazz, among a billion other styles. What made him awesome was that he could bridge all styles and move between rock, jazz, classical and doowop in a song.
Of course it's all a matter of opinion, so here's a couple of things I'll mention:
- He's in Downbeat magazine's hall of fame, between Lester Young and Joe Zawinul. http://downbeat.com/archives/detail/downbeat-hall-of-fame
- Re. Hot rats and peaches en regalia in particular:
From Wikipedia: "Peaches en Regalia" is an instrumental jazz fusion composition by Frank Zappa. "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaches_en_Regalia
- This doesn't look like folk or Mamas and the Papas to me frankly:
- Note that the above is from a Real Book, where you usually find Jazz Standards
You want to call it prog rock? Sure. I don't think arguing over labels is a good use of time. But the man played more than 3rds and 6ths.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obsessive Compulsive
New member
Re: Jazz boxes
Well Beavis & Butthead made the list of 100 Most Influential People in Guitar in GW 1994 issue, and guess what? Jimi didn't make it cause he's dead! So magazine accolade doesn't mean anything.
Yeah it's a matter of opinion. The way I hear it Hot Rats isn't evocative of the typical jazz as common people are familiar with. Mamas and Papas reference was just my attempt to point this out.
Zappa's solo is clearly unstructured, improvisational but that doesn't even sound like the typical jazz. Of course, he played more than 3rd and 6ths but still, he doesn't sound jazz at all.
That's exactly my point, just because you shove millions of chromatics in your playing, you won't automatically sound jazzy.
Well Beavis & Butthead made the list of 100 Most Influential People in Guitar in GW 1994 issue, and guess what? Jimi didn't make it cause he's dead! So magazine accolade doesn't mean anything.
Yeah it's a matter of opinion. The way I hear it Hot Rats isn't evocative of the typical jazz as common people are familiar with. Mamas and Papas reference was just my attempt to point this out.
Zappa's solo is clearly unstructured, improvisational but that doesn't even sound like the typical jazz. Of course, he played more than 3rd and 6ths but still, he doesn't sound jazz at all.
That's exactly my point, just because you shove millions of chromatics in your playing, you won't automatically sound jazzy.
Blille
Well-known member
Re: Jazz boxes
Fair enough.
He was definitely not typical
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fair enough.
He was definitely not typical
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Jazz boxes
I'd say that Zappa is probably more contemporary classical than jazz, but I am not into labels, really. On Hot Rats, I can hear the classical elements (and I bet most of it was written out for the musicians to play), there is little improv, and 'Peaches', as much as I like that piece, it doesn't swing at all.
I'd say that Zappa is probably more contemporary classical than jazz, but I am not into labels, really. On Hot Rats, I can hear the classical elements (and I bet most of it was written out for the musicians to play), there is little improv, and 'Peaches', as much as I like that piece, it doesn't swing at all.
Re: Jazz boxes
you know, I had a question on this topic. So I checked out some custom Jazz guitar builders and on several forums with hard core guys they claim that anything over 3 inches deep the way a jazz box is constructed-you will start to lose treble definition and tone. So my question is........ if I want more mass, cant I just add size at that point like say 17 inch or 18 inch body as long as it doesnt go over 3 inched deep? I know more mass gives a more bass percusive thunk in a natural way when the notes are plucked. I just dont want to lose upper end treble to get that big thunk. I know I can EQ for it but the natural percussive thunk just sounds good.
you know, I had a question on this topic. So I checked out some custom Jazz guitar builders and on several forums with hard core guys they claim that anything over 3 inches deep the way a jazz box is constructed-you will start to lose treble definition and tone. So my question is........ if I want more mass, cant I just add size at that point like say 17 inch or 18 inch body as long as it doesnt go over 3 inched deep? I know more mass gives a more bass percusive thunk in a natural way when the notes are plucked. I just dont want to lose upper end treble to get that big thunk. I know I can EQ for it but the natural percussive thunk just sounds good.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Jazz boxes
I thought the top and bracing has more affect, or can counteract issues like that?
I thought the top and bracing has more affect, or can counteract issues like that?
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jazz boxes
The Epiphone Broadway in natural is now the wallpaper on my phone.
The Epiphone Broadway in natural is now the wallpaper on my phone.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jazz boxes
If I wanted to stay in the land of no pickup swapping, I could go with the D'Angelico EXL-1, for a very different unplugged experience. (It sounds really good unplugged.)
View attachment 79859
If I wanted to stay in the land of no pickup swapping, I could go with the D'Angelico EXL-1, for a very different unplugged experience. (It sounds really good unplugged.)
View attachment 79859
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jazz boxes
GC Memphis has one for nine.
GC Memphis has one for nine.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jazz boxes
I played a D'Angelico EXL-1A today. It's an acoustic archtop with an invisible piezo pickup. I didn't plug it in, but with fresh strings (probably 12's or 13's) it sounded phenomenal. It's basically an EXL-1 that trades the floating mini humbucker for the piezo, then gives up the pickguard-mounted knobs. The top is laminated spruce, so the sound really surprised me. It was more like what I expected out of a nice solid-wood acoustic.
View attachment 80442
I played a D'Angelico EXL-1A today. It's an acoustic archtop with an invisible piezo pickup. I didn't plug it in, but with fresh strings (probably 12's or 13's) it sounded phenomenal. It's basically an EXL-1 that trades the floating mini humbucker for the piezo, then gives up the pickguard-mounted knobs. The top is laminated spruce, so the sound really surprised me. It was more like what I expected out of a nice solid-wood acoustic.
View attachment 80442
Re: Jazz boxes
I know D'Angelicos (the originals) are like the Everest of traditional jazz guitars, but even the old ones look too ostentatious for me. The new ones seem even worse, because it obviously isn't quite the same company. I played Eastmans that sound better than the newer ones, though.
I know D'Angelicos (the originals) are like the Everest of traditional jazz guitars, but even the old ones look too ostentatious for me. The new ones seem even worse, because it obviously isn't quite the same company. I played Eastmans that sound better than the newer ones, though.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jazz boxes
Dollar for dollar, or was there a significant skew?
Dollar for dollar, or was there a significant skew?
Similar threads
