Jazz vs. Benedettos

[Inflames626]

Hi all,

Forgive my ignorance here as I'm not a jazz player (half/whole vs. whole/half diminished scale is about as far as I go there), but if the Jazz already does Jazz, why does the Benedetto line exist, at least for regular 6 string players with pickup rings? I realize some jazz guitars have different construction that has to be accommodated.

With some of the emphasis in metal on very flat, clean sounding pickups, I'm waiting for some metal guy on YouTube to put Benedettos in a guitar, run them through a high gain rig, and proclaim them to be the Holy Grail of tone we've been overlooking the whole time.

More seriously, I've considered trying them in the case SD's usual production lines aren't exactly what I'm looking for. But I thought, "If the Jazz already does Jazz, and I don't have a special guitar that needs a Benedetto, what would be the point?"

Thanks.

 

[jeremy]

if i was playing jazz, i wouldnt use the duncan jazz pup. if i was playing detuned metal, i might

 

[Clint 55]

To me, the Benedetto sounded like it was voiced exactly the same as the Jazz - firm bass, scooped mids, glossy top - only with a tighter and more immediate attack. This is actually the opposite of what I like for jazz. I love the 59 because it's syrupy with a chewy attack. I could definitely see the Benedetto working for metal. I like the Jazz for jazz. People hate on it because it's scooped but it works fine.

The answer is no you don't need a Benedetto. It wasn't my cup of tea but you could try it if you want mega tight. My list of good Duncan jazz pups are the 59, A2P, Seth, Phat Cat, and Jazz.

 

[Artie]

I hope I'm not belaboring this point, but, (to me), the Jazz really comes into its own with 250k pots. Smooth, yet still articulate.

Haven't tried a Benedetto, but I'd like to.

 

[Demanic]

I agree with Jeremy on using the Jazz n with down tuned metal. And Artie's correct about using a 250k pot.
I love mine in the neck of my DXMG. With a 500k pot.

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[beaubrummels]

You can't go by the names of the pickups. All of them are just coils and magnets that translate string vibrations into sound and each has a particular frequency response. The only way to judge a pickup is by using it and learning what it actually sounds like, then applying it's characteristics to whatever problem you are trying to solve or sound you are trying to enhance. For example, the Jazz set is 'generally' bright, some scoop in the mids, decent bottom end but not fat or loose. Whether that works for Jazz or will solve the problem you are trying to solve depends on your guitar and your rig and the music you are trying to play.

 

[Mincer]

The Jazz was never a good jazz pickup for me. Too bright, and the low end is too tight. I like the Ants for jazz, followed by the Seths and Alnico II Pro.

 

[Demanic]

The Jazz was never a good jazz pickup for me. Too bright, and the low end is too tight. I like the Ants for jazz, followed by the Seths and Alnico II Pro.

I'm a fan of John Schofield. I like a brighter, tighter sound for jazz. Almost Jaco like, but on guitar. I'll use the amp to thicken it up.

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[orpheo]

The Jazz is extremly misnamed imho.

 

[Artie]

We could probably have a whole discussion on what "Jazz" even is. It is, by it's nature, somewhat undefined and improvisational. I have a friend back in Ohio who was into Jazz such as Charlie Parker et al. It drove him nuts when we referred to The Rippingtons or Pat Metheny as jazz.

 

[Mincer]

When I think of 'jazz guitar', I tend to think of tones like Kenny Burrell. This really isn't the sound that the Jazz model replicates

Obviously, jazz includes players like John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth, too. I love their tones just as well, but they are very, very different.

 

[Inflames626]

Aside from being aware of names (Davis, Scofield, Holdsworth, Montgomery, Stern, etc.), I can't comment, although I have passing familiarity with stuff like Weather Report.

Would it be accurate to say that the jazz guitar tone world falls into warm/clean vs. bright/clean? If I recall some jazz guitarists even use flatwound guitar strings.

I'm mostly familiar with very old 30s/40s "Casablanca" type stuff ("cool jazz" I guess) and modern free jazz, fusion, acid jazz, etc.

beaubrummels makes a very good point about pickup names, but one would like to think for marketing purposes that the name somewhat reflects the sound of the pickup.

Would "Black Winter" make sense as a name for an Albert Lee, country-style pickup? Someone might have tried it and said it works, but I'd like to think names are at least a helpful place to start.

 

[Mincer]

Actual jazz tone is all over the map, but traditional tone, from the 50s & 60s jazz players like Joe Pass, Wes, & George Benson, is round, dark, and almost wooly.

 

[Inflames626]

Can't believe Joe Pass didn't occur to me. When I was being taught, he was associated with the whole tone scale, which has some surprising uses for outside sounds in metal.

 

[Clint 55]

You need bass to play jazz and the Jazz has that so it works. However, if you want a traditional jazz tone, it usually had upper mid chirp like Kenny Burrell or low mid wool like Pat Martino. The Jazz is scooped so it won't provide that traditional jazz tone. While other models will do it better like the Ant, PC, Seth etc. The Jazz with A2 aka the A2P is nice as well as an A2 59.

 

[Mincer]

You need bass to play jazz and the Jazz has that so it works. However, if you want a traditional jazz tone, it usually had upper mid chirp like Kenny Burrell or low mid wool like Pat Martino. The Jazz is scooped so it won't provide that traditional jazz tone. While other models will do it better like the Ant, PC, Seth etc. The Jazz with A2 aka the A2P is nice as well as an A2 59.

All of this, yes.