JB awww sound when clean

[JimmyO]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

So I have a zebra Custom Custom trembucker shipping out Amazon prime courtesy of the wife, nothing says happy valentines more than a shiny new Seymour Duncan pickup. If it works out I may end up getting a zebra Pearly Gates for the neck. I really like the Pearly Gates set in an Epiphone Boneyard I have, but am hoping the Custom Custom will compensate a bit for the longer scale length and Floyd rose in the superstrat.

 

[thanaton]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

First off, Dimarzio patented a very particular combination of coils with different gauges (thus different inductance numbers) but a similar number of turns (thus matching total impedance), producing a fully hum-cancelling pickup with more highly customizable frequency curves due to the two different resonant peaks of the inductors. Pickups comprised of coils using different numbers of turns (which most of Duncan's hybrid coils are) fall outside the patent.

Second, that patent should be well expired by now; it was filed back in 1983, and the longest a patent has ever been enforceable is 21 years (and not since the 1800s). DiMarzio, as you probably know, is fairly good at protecting their IP though, so it's no surprise that they continue to call it their patented Dual Resonance design.

The two coils don't really have two difference resonant peaks. They just want you to think they do. If you put two inductors in series, their inductance combines, therefore one resonant peak. In order to get two isolated resonant peaks, you would need a buffer in between the two coils.

Also, they won't get perfect humbucking by simply matching the impedence or inductance, because the size of the coils are different, so you'll get more EMF through one than the other. Even with a typical PAF you don't get perfect hum rejection because the screw and slug cores result in different inductances, but in either case, they reject enough hum that the customer is satisfied.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

The two coils don't really have two difference resonant peaks. They just want you to think they do. If you put two inductors in series, their inductance combines, therefore one resonant peak. In order to get two isolated resonant peaks, you would need a buffer in between the two coils.

Also, they won't get perfect humbucking by simply matching the impedence or inductance, because the size of the coils are different, so you'll get more EMF through one than the other. Even with a typical PAF you don't get perfect hum rejection because the screw and slug cores result in different inductances, but in either case, they reject enough hum that the customer is satisfied.

I feel like somebody here (freefrog or somebody) has already gone over this but actually provided images of his oscilloscope showing that you're not quite right there.

 

[thanaton]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

Not quite right about what? This all relates back to fundamental physics. If someone had images from an oscilloscope that showed otherwise, I'd have to ask why it is that their test result appear to defy fundamental physics.

 

[Mincer]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

So I have a zebra Custom Custom trembucker shipping out Amazon prime courtesy of the wife, nothing says happy valentines more than a shiny new Seymour Duncan pickup. If it works out I may end up getting a zebra Pearly Gates for the neck. I really like the Pearly Gates set in an Epiphone Boneyard I have, but am hoping the Custom Custom will compensate a bit for the longer scale length and Floyd rose in the superstrat.

Awesome! Report back on how it sounds- I love mine, as it is my favorite bridge pickup in Strat-style guitars.

 

[freefrog]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

I feel like somebody here (freefrog or somebody) has already gone over this but actually provided images of his oscilloscope

It's true that since 2003, I've toyed with guitar pickups, measured with various analyzers... It's also true that sometimes, I share online a slice of my experiments FWIW...

But I must say that I feel humble with these things: more than once, I've said to myself that with guitar pickups, "laws of physics" work in a more complicated way than expected.

Add to this feeling that I've not enough free time to waste it in sterile online arguments and you'll know why I rarely publish my findings.

Furthermore, an answer about DiMarzio Dual Resonance would be off topic here. But I might try to share something about that in the next days, if time permits and if I feel it doable in a constructive way.

Dummy coil. They tend to make the tone kind of dull, unless they are low resistance.

Hello David Schwab, glad to see you with your knowledge and actual experience of winder among us!

Regarding dummy coils with high DCR I see what you mean, but... I've done a couple of successful custom wiring with cheap "hot" MIC humbuckers, deprived of their baseplates and magnets... Wired in parallel with hot bridge pickups, these things are sometimes able to lower the overall DCR and inductance in a way that I find useable...

That's what I was about to answer to the OP: find a cheap 16k humbucker, keep only its coils with their magnetic poles, pack the whole in some adhesive tape buried in the electronic cavity then wire it to a switch allowing a parallel signel path. Once enabled, it should give to the JB a DCR of 8k and an inductance of 3H to 4H (= not far from the specs of a T-Top)... and it might sound not that bad as long it's connected to a 500k volume pot without tone control (or with a no load pot).

NOTE - the original inductance of a JB is of approximatively 7.8H according to my own measurements.

FWIW (= my humble two cents).

 

[thanaton]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

Another option, if you think splitting / parallel is too thin and weak, is to do a partial split. Rather than dump one coil entirely to ground, you put a trim a pot between the split and ground, and dial it until you get as good in between sound. You need a trim pot because the exact "in between" resistance is hard to predict, but when I've done this, I've ended up with a resistance of about 15 to 20k ohms, so a 50k ohm trim pot would work well.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

But I must say that I feel humble with these things: more than once, I've said to myself that with guitar pickups, "laws of physics" work in a more complicated way than expected.

Yep, as simple as pickups are, trying to chart out every little interaction is complicated! There's so many small variables that all effect the tone.

Just looking at how many different models of PAF style pickups Duncan makes illustrates that point!

It can be very time consuming trying out new ideas.

Hello David Schwab, glad to see you with your knowledge and actual experience of winder among us!

Regarding dummy coils with high DCR I see what you mean, but... I've done a couple of successful custom wiring with cheap "hot" MIC humbuckers, deprived of their baseplates and magnets... Wired in parallel with hot bridge pickups, these things are sometimes able to lower the overall DCR and inductance in a way that I find useable...

That's what I was about to answer to the OP: find a cheap 16k humbucker, keep only its coils with their magnetic poles, pack the whole in some adhesive tape buried in the electronic cavity then wire it to a switch allowing a parallel signel path. Once enabled, it should give to the JB a DCR of 8k and an inductance of 3H to 4H (= not far from the specs of a T-Top)... and it might sound not that bad as long it's connected to a 500k volume pot without tone control (or with a no load pot).

NOTE - the original inductance of a JB is of approximatively 7.8H according to my own measurements.

FWIW (= my humble two cents).

Thanks for the welcome!

I've only messed with dummy coils a little over the years. I was usually left not being crazy about the results. So I started experimenting with stacked coils and different designs. I stacked two Gibson patent label pickups (back then they were just used pickups in my junk box and not worth what they are today [emoji30]) on top of each other in a guitar back in about 1979. I was able to switch between coils, so I had the standard tone (top two coils), a hot pickup tone (all 4 coils) and a stacked single coil (two to choose from). It worked great. And that wasn't counting parallel wiring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[punchlinechar]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

I don't have any experience with this, but I'd check out the Perpetual Burn, it can handle itself under gain and from what I've heard it has a good clean tone

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[JimmyO]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

The TB-11 arrived today so just swapping it in. I noticed the JB has a sticker that says JBL on it. Anyone know what it means? I bought it in about 93/94 and was my first aftermarket pickup.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

The TB-11 arrived today so just swapping it in. I noticed the JB has a sticker that says JBL on it. Anyone know what it means? I bought it in about 93/94 and was my first aftermarket pickup.

It means it's from the same era when the winder/Builder put their initial on the baseplate sticker. Essentially a JBJ-era, but a JBL. Leticia or Lydia, I think.

Comparable to a JBJ, in my opinion. Good score.

 

[JimmyO]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

It means it's from the same era when the winder/Builder put their initial on the baseplate sticker. Essentially a JBJ-era, but a JBL. Leticia or Lydia, I think.

Comparable to a JBJ, in my opinion. Good score.

Thanks for the info, also read your JB articles and makes for good reading, nice work putting it together. With the JBL I've never had any ice pick issues that folks sometimes complain about. Will be saving it for a scooped mid guitar or musical situation that needs those juicy extra mids. Too early to give any real feedback on the custom custom, but it is pretty different from the JB. Will have to spend some time with this one. I want to say between the JB and custom custom most of my 80s rock tones are covered.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

Thanks for the info, also read your JB articles and makes for good reading, nice work putting it together.

thanks, man. I appreciate that.

With the JBL I've never had any ice pick issues that folks sometimes complain about.

most definitely. I've had at least 1 JB-L. I have 1 TB4-G, which is for Gloria. whatever it was they were doing back then seems to have been working. :yes11:

Will be saving it for a scooped mid guitar or musical situation that needs those juicy extra mids. Too early to give any real feedback on the custom custom, but it is pretty different from the JB. Will have to spend some time with this one. I want to say between the JB and custom custom most of my 80s rock tones are covered.

try it in a few guitars. I used an 80s JBJ in a basswood Charvel tuned down a full step and it was nailing mid-late-80s hard rock and pop metal without breaking a sweat. no mush.

 

[Liko]

Re: JB awww sound when clean

The JB is wound too hot to give a good clean tone. It sounds like mud. It lacks highs. Just a lot of upper mids.

You can switch it into parallel which should clean it up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just finished adding a S/P push-pull to my HRH-equipped LP as a little side project, while I wait for the big project to show up from Warmoth. It does make a huge difference in sound, much brighter and more scooped. Not perfect but it definitely adds a good trick to the bag for clean work. Only problem is after switching back and forth a bazillion times, the speed knob shattered, and it's too late to duck out to GC for another. Oh well, I'll grab one after work tomorrow.