JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

rammer69 said:
thanks to all replies, i did not intend on stirring up all of this controversy, i posted last night before going to bed, i drive a semi /dump truck & trailor for 12-13 hrs a day, & did not think i would be home in time to call s/duncan, after reading these replys, i called MJ, she stated that JB & DISTORTION have the same wire, just not the same amount of turns, but close, MJ also stated that both the JB & SH6 W/A8 WOULD be comparable to a ALTERNATE 8 again thanks to all, rammer
Click to expand...

Quick!! Someone bookmark this post for the next time this debate comes up!
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

LtKojak said:
...The differences became clear when comparing notes. I did the JB, my ex partner in crime against p'up nature did the DD. The methodology was the same. I wish I could have access NOW to the lab we had access in the past...
Click to expand...

Very good. Much more convincing than the tooth fairy. Seriously I respect the fact that you did the reverse engineering and recorded what you found. (I really wish you'd share, but wishes horses beggars something.)


rammer69 said:
...i called MJ, she stated that JB & DISTORTION have the same wire, just not the same amount of turns, but close...
Click to expand...

Excellent work.
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

It's okay, take your time.

Patient%20Bear.jpeg
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

rammer69 said:
i called MJ, she stated that JB & DISTORTION have the same wire, just not the same amount of turns, but close, MJ also stated that both the JB & SH6 W/A8 WOULD be comparable to a ALTERNATE 8
Click to expand...

Ok, that confirms my findings:

Similar=Yes
The same=No

Thank you for calling MJ, rammer69.

After this, I bet people will start to write that JB, DD and now the Alternative is THE SAME P'UP w/different mags... wanna bet? :banghead:
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

Alt 8 is an extremely different wire and wind. JB, Distortion, and Invader are far more similar. How similar? I'd like to answer that with a question: Have we earned any trade secrets? Internet posts are permanent archives from the moment you hit "post". Available to anyone, friend or foe for use at any time in the future. So let's think about this information in particular. If I say they're exactly the same, then I teach the garage winder that you can make entirely different (and viable) sounding pickup models simply by changing magnets.

We've already taught them this with the Custom, CC, C5 etc. The Custom is a killer wind that aptly takes to the full compliment of magnet types, enjoying total magnet diversity. Not all winds are like this. The 59 and other vintage HB winds are not that way. A tall Ceramic magnet in a 59, or worse three ceramics (like the Invader) would not make a good bridge pickup IMO! The 59 is not the same wind as a Pearly Gates, nor are either the same as the Antiquity, Seth Lover, etc. Each one of those pickups' winds are nuanced for the specific application.

Now we move to the "16k" group of pickups we make. Lt. Kojak says they pulled them apart and found some nuance between them. That's the kind of detective work I'd like to see bantered on a forum such as this, rather than demanding the company reveal it's secrets. In the 60s and 70s Seymour wasn't demanding to know whether Fender used the Broadcaster pickup in lap steels. He knows what he knows primarily because he took apart old pickups. There was no forum to ask the company.

Fast forward to today. We just had our 2nd User Group Day. We host factory tours for industry magazines and other video tours, etc. We've let people farther in to our world than perhaps ANY other pickup manufacturer in the world. Should we really be obligated to answer this question?
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

LtKojak said:
Ok, that confirms my findings:

Similar=Yes
The same=No

Thank you for calling MJ, rammer69.

After this, I bet people will start to write that JB, DD and now the Alternative is THE SAME P'UP w/different mags... wanna bet? :banghead:
Click to expand...


Similar, yes very much so. So close that it probably doesn't matter. Exact as far as winds? Nope, but then again, you can pull 3 of the same pickups off the shelf and have 3 different readings. So you're back to square one on whether they're the same are not. I've had JBs that read over 18k and some that were right at 15k.

The thing is, they're close enough to be twins. They might not be Siamese twins, but they are identical for sure.

I've got to say this was at least a better read than all the EVH thread wars, but still you guys are arguing semantics here.

At the end of the day, all that matters here is how those pickups sound, and apparently they sound great or they wouldn't have been around for 35 years.

Also Frank is right. We are privy to a lot of info most other companies wouldn't dare tell you. Double Cream Larry D would tell you to kick rocks. Call their tech support about swapping mags and see what they tell you.
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

Kudos to Lt. Kojak,rammer69 and our own Frank. I wish I had the gut to rip apart pickups and other thing related to guitars that full of myths spread on the net. Especially to you Lt. Kojak,sorry for my thickheaded-ness in my thread a while ago. Nice to know ya.
Ok folks,back to topic now.
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

LtKojak said:
Joseph Goebbles knew that if you tell a lie many times, when become vox populi, it becomes the "perceived truth" and eventually the absolute truth.

He was Hitler's minister of the Nazi Propaganda.

Internet hearsay does exactly that: by endlessly repeating a lie it eventually becomes the truth.

I, reasonable person, base my opinions on facts. And the facts resulting from my own research suggest otherwise.

HTH,
Click to expand...

What a ridiculous post, comparing a guy on a pickup forum to a Nazi murderer?
FWIW I never thought they were the same pickup, they sound completely different to my ears to the extent a mag swap wouldnt make such a difference but come on, I know you dont like people disagreeing with you but Nazis?
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

LtKojak said:
The measures were taking by two different persons at two different times.

The differences became clear when comparing notes. I did the JB, my ex partner in crime against p'up nature did the DD. The methodology was the same. I wish I could have access NOW to the lab we had access in the past...

He worked for the military in a plant that built parts for combat helicopters.
Click to expand...

I read on the internet that all combat helicopters use Dimarzios...

What I see here is a guy with clear, first hand evidence and another guy with hearsay. Sounds like a KO in the first round to me. It's weird how some people argue.
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

This is correct and has been well known on this forum since the early days before the heretics are suggesting anything different than this. :D

grumptruck said:
I was also under the impression that hte JB, Distortion, and Invader have the same exact coils with 3 different kinds of mags. not counting screws.

Anyone got any links?
Click to expand...
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

This is my take also. All pickups probably have a .1-.3% +/- tolerance on any given day. I sincerelt doubt they'd go through the trouble of using different enameled wire for a JB or DD when they sound so similar (exact to me) when they share the same magnet. We've discussed this ad nauseum in years past and everyone's conclusion (with their ears) are that they are the same pickups. Similar=same if the difference can't be heard or a discrepancy showing in any significant measurement. This is my take and I am sticking to it.

Kojak I dig your curiosity, but some of us have done this 10-15 years ago and came to a different conclusion than you and your lab buddy.

Not to toot my own horn but I was the guy that posted sound clips of an Invader with hex poles when everyone on here and their brother was telling me the Invader has it's trademark sound due to those Invader poles. I proved those people wrong (back in 2004) as the Invader still sounds like an Invader (just better) with Hex poles and is much tighter and with much less mud.

9finger said:
Similar, yes very much so. So close that it probably doesn't matter. Exact as far as winds? Nope, but then again, you can pull 3 of the same pickups off the shelf and have 3 different readings. So you're back to square one on whether they're the same are not. I've had JBs that read over 18k and some that were right at 15k.

The thing is, they're close enough to be twins. They might not be Siamese twins, but they are identical for sure.

I've got to say this was at least a better read than all the EVH thread wars, but still you guys are arguing semantics here.

At the end of the day, all that matters here is how those pickups sound, and apparently they sound great or they wouldn't have been around for 35 years.

Also Frank is right. We are privy to a lot of info most other companies wouldn't dare tell you. Double Cream Larry D would tell you to kick rocks. Call their tech support about swapping mags and see what they tell you.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

Varg said:
What a ridiculous post, comparing a guy on a pickup forum to a Nazi murderer?
FWIW I never thought they were the same pickup, they sound completely different to my ears to the extent a mag swap wouldnt make such a difference but come on, I know you dont like people disagreeing with you but Nazis?
Click to expand...

Varg, with all due respect, you may want to brush up your reading/comprehension skills. You have either misread or misinterpreted the content.

Yours very truly,

Joseph Goebbels
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

Fusion1 said:
Kojak I dig your curiosity, but some of us have done this 10-15 years ago and came to a different conclusion than you and your lab buddy.
Click to expand...

You haven't read Frank Falbo's post, now haven't you?
 
Re: JB & DISTORTION THE SAME PUP EXCEPT MAG

frankfalbo said:
Alt 8 is an extremely different wire and wind. JB, Distortion, and Invader are far more similar. How similar? I'd like to answer that with a question: Have we earned any trade secrets? Internet posts are permanent archives from the moment you hit "post". Available to anyone, friend or foe for use at any time in the future. So let's think about this information in particular. If I say they're exactly the same, then I teach the garage winder that you can make entirely different (and viable) sounding pickup models simply by changing magnets.

We've already taught them this with the Custom, CC, C5 etc. The Custom is a killer wind that aptly takes to the full compliment of magnet types, enjoying total magnet diversity. Not all winds are like this. The 59 and other vintage HB winds are not that way. A tall Ceramic magnet in a 59, or worse three ceramics (like the Invader) would not make a good bridge pickup IMO! The 59 is not the same wind as a Pearly Gates, nor are either the same as the Antiquity, Seth Lover, etc. Each one of those pickups' winds are nuanced for the specific application.

Now we move to the "16k" group of pickups we make. Lt. Kojak says they pulled them apart and found some nuance between them. That's the kind of detective work I'd like to see bantered on a forum such as this, rather than demanding the company reveal it's secrets. In the 60s and 70s Seymour wasn't demanding to know whether Fender used the Broadcaster pickup in lap steels. He knows what he knows primarily because he took apart old pickups. There was no forum to ask the company.

Fast forward to today. We just had our 2nd User Group Day. We host factory tours for industry magazines and other video tours, etc. We've let people farther in to our world than perhaps ANY other pickup manufacturer in the world. Should we really be obligated to answer this question?
Click to expand...



LtKojak said:
You haven't read Frank Falbo's post, now haven't you?
Click to expand...

Really? I wouldn't question someone else in their ability to comprehend what's being posted when you obviously aren't that adept either. No where in Frank's post does he deny how similar those pickups are. His post is actually a pretty good smokescreen maneuver. Just because you got a pat on the back for taking things apart doesn't exactly make you right.

While we're pissing up a rope here, which model of the JB are we saying is directly compared to the Distortion? The modern production model, or the Antiquity version that's built to the original JB's specs? IIRC, there was a conversation about a 3rd version as well, but my memory is fuzzy.
 
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