Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

O

OdgeUK

New member
Hi All,

I tried to search this, but I don't want to plough through a dozen posts about the Jimmy Page Les Paul signature model

A friend of mine recently bought a Les Paul Standard. We are both fascinated by those two switches he had under the Scratchplate on his #2 Les Paul. And we both love those Out of Phase Sounds on The Song Remains The Same, with the Red Les Paul on Whole Lotta Love.

We reckon we can wire his Les Paul up in a similar fasion, but have the two switched on two push-pull tone or volume controls instead.

Can anyone tell me exactly what those two switched did? And if you only need two push/pull pots to replicate it?

Is there a wiring diagram around for this?

It might be that the Jimmy page signature model does this already, but i can't equate two switches under the scratchplate to FOUR push/pull controls on the Signature model. Seems like they added some options there, which we're not too interested in...
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

Cheers for the diagram.

Thing is though.....that seems a little complicated. I'm not convinced that this wiring achieves the same thing as those two switches he had on Les Paul #2

The wiring diagram you've linked too, looks like the 21-sound wiring with four push-pull pots. I don't beleive that his Les Paul with the two switches was this complicated.

In fact, I heard that his #1 Les Paul simply had ONE push pull pot, that put the two humbucker out of phase with each other?

I wonder what Pages two little switches did? One for Series? And one for Phase? I don't think he split the coils on that Les Paul.

Oh...and when I say "The Song Remains the Same", I mean the live DVD, not the Song!

Cheers!
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

Interesting. A little more googling reveals that the two switches on Les Paul #2 performed the following:

One of the buttons puts the pickup into series or parallel and the other offers regular or out-of-phase tones.
Click to expand...

BUT.......these were installed in 1980. So those tones from the 70's must've been done with Les Paul #1 and it's single Push/Pull pot. Which, it seems to be debated, is either a control for putting the pickups out of phase, or a coil splitter.

The plot thickens......

We're definately not interested in the FOUR push-pull pot wiring. That's way too much and I don't beleive Page ever used that sort of wiring on any of his Zep-era guitars.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

I've got to ask... Who cares if Page's LP in the 70's had 1 or 4 push-pulls? THere are a lot of incredible tones in those 4 pots, and obviously he had one of them (70's) and two of them (80's) on his Pauls. Especially if you are going to go through the work to add a series/parallel switch, why not add the taps and phase? Not to mention, the series/parallel portion sounds best with the HBs tapped anyway.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

PFDarkside said:
I've got to ask... Who cares if Page's LP in the 70's had 1 or 4 push-pulls? THere are a lot of incredible tones in those 4 pots, and obviously he had one of them (70's) and two of them (80's) on his Pauls. Especially if you are going to go through the work to add a series/parallel switch, why not add the taps and phase? Not to mention, the series/parallel portion sounds best with the HBs tapped anyway.
Click to expand...

We just want to keep it simple and easy without resorting to a tech's services. My friend doesn't want to rush out and buy four push-pull pots and start tearing his brand new Les Paul apart, replacing the whole harness and having the guitar out of action for a while while it's on the bench.

ONE Push-pull pot, if that is how Page was getting those 70's Les Paul sounds, would be much easier and quicker and achieve the objective, which is to have the same wiring configuration as Page did in the 70's. That way, when he can't get the tone on "The Ocean", I can turn around and say, well bud, you've got EXACTLY the same tools as Page had, right there.........;)
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

OdgeUK said:
We just want to keep it simple and easy without resorting to a tech's services. My friend doesn't want to rush out and buy four push-pull pots and start tearing his brand new Les Paul apart, replacing the whole harness and having the guitar out of action for a while while it's on the bench.
Click to expand...

I'm self-taught on guitar wiring & my second rewire was installing the 21-sound JP system in a LP. It's not hard. I had no prior experience with soldering or any electrical knowledge. Before you start, print off the diagram, and use colored magic markers to map the wires, so you'll know exactly where everything goes. DO NOT disconnect all the wires to the toggle & input jack, as this unnecessarily complicates things (you'll only have to hook them up again). You need PU's with 4 leads (plus ground) and 4 pots. Use a soldering iron, not a gun.

You can do half the wiring ahead of time (wires between the push-pulls), and and can even put in lead wires for the PU's & toggle switch in advance (basically making the harness as a "drop-in"). That way before you pull out all the original pots, you can test it with alligator clips. In one evening you can leisurely install a full JP system, and if you've done the harness ahead of time (& tested it), the drop-in soldering is a half hour if you work at a slow pace.

Remember that every electrical part has a hot & a ground, and all the grounds have to be linked in one big loop which runs to the bridge ground wire. If you have noise when you plug in, something's not grounded. Make sure your solder connections are bright, shiny, and firm.

Too many people are intimidated by alternative wiring. The most common beginner's mistakes are to either leave something out of the ground network, or disconnect EVERYTING at once, and get totally confused. Do it in easy-to-understand steps. This is not rocker science...the average 12 year old can do this. There is no excuse for an adult not to rewire to improve the tone & add versatility to a guitar.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

Whether he had 1, 2 or 4 push-pulls, the sound that people are after is not the "plain" out of phase sound.

It is the pickups out of phase, but in series. Note series, because parallel pickups out of phase are usually just a thin mess (unless you put the volume of one of them down, or split one or take some other measure to ensure one pickup doesn't have it's full volume, which would be subtracted from the other pickup's transmissions).

You can achieve that with one push-pull if it has enough contacts. Just because he only had one switch doesn't mean he only switches one thing compared to a standard LP configuration.

Remember that each additional switch (whether it's in a push-pull or not) adds a reliability risk and gives you more opportunity to screw it up in the first place.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

if you can afford a les paul and are kinda intimidated about a wiring plan/project, i would suggest getting a les paul cheapo knock off and rewiring the crap outa that. that way you dont damage the real guitar and you get some experience with the actual wiring, and you get a preview of what those sounds will/can do.

wiring a guitar for 21(or more sounds) and then discovering you only use 3 is kinda a waste of time/money.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

Here's the confusion. Page had 2 Les Pauls- a '58 and '59. One of them had just one push pull pot for coil tap. That's the one Gibson just did the reissue for, and I think it was his '59.

The '58 had the complicated phase, coil taps, and series parallel switching. That's the one Gibson made in the late '90's.

I don't think they made push/pull guitar pots in the 70's, so I think all the switching was under the pickguard with switches. I've never seen a close up shot of either guitar which shows the switches.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

jmh151 said:
Here's the confusion. Page had 2 Les Pauls- a '58 and '59. One of them had just one push pull pot for coil tap. That's the one Gibson just did the reissue for, and I think it was his '59.

The '58 had the complicated phase, coil taps, and series parallel switching. That's the one Gibson made in the late '90's.
Click to expand...

I think you mean coil split, not coil tap, right?
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

jmh151 said:
I don't think they made push/pull guitar pots in the 70's, so I think all the switching was under the pickguard with switches. I've never seen a close up shot of either guitar which shows the switches.
Click to expand...

He only had two switches though. So I'm thinking he could only have controlled Phase with one, and Parallel / Seriel with the other? Besides, those switches were put on in the 80's? So the out of phase and serial changes on record, must've all been off that single Push/Pull pot on the Les Paul #1 ?

Anyway. Great replies. Thanks all. I think a single Push Pull for now is a good start. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a Push Pull that can do out of phase? Or even better, a diagram of a single push/pull that can do BOTH series / parallel switching and Phase?
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

OdgeUK said:
He only had two switches though. So I'm thinking he could only have controlled Phase with one, and Parallel / Seriel with the other? Besides, those switches were put on in the 80's? So the out of phase and serial changes on record, must've all been off that single Push/Pull pot on the Les Paul #1 ?
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, just because you switch two things at once doesn't mean you need two switches. Once switch can have many pairs of contacts.

OdgeUK said:
Anyway. Great replies. Thanks all. I think a single Push Pull for now is a good start. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a Push Pull that can do out of phase? Or even better, a diagram of a single push/pull that can do BOTH series / parallel switching and Phase?
Click to expand...

Unless I lack caffeine this drawing allows you to do this:
  • Position 1: parallel in-phase
  • Position 2: series out-of-phase
  • With a switch with three pair of contacts

So even though you only have one switch you have both the series/parallel and the phase switching capabilities. Of course not in all combinations, but in the useful combinations.

page-phase.jpg
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

uOpt said:
As I said earlier, just because you switch two things at once doesn't mean you need two switches. Once switch can have many pairs of contacts.



Unless I lack caffeine this drawing allows you to do this:
  • Position 1: parallel in-phase
  • Position 2: series out-of-phase
  • With a switch with three pair of contacts

So even though you only have one switch you have both the series/parallel and the phase switching capabilities. Of course not in all combinations, but in the useful combinations.

page-phase.jpg
Click to expand...

AWESOME!! Thank you
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

blueman335 said:
This is not rocker science...
Click to expand...

Is that so ?:18:
Well, you can still count me in.
I guess I should do sth like that to my axe, but I may change the Custom for PG, 59, SuperD, DD, or generally any pup with a tad less tight bass and less high end spike.
 
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul

Iron Horse said:
Well, you can still count me in. I guess I should do sth like that to my axe, but I may change the Custom for PG, 59, SuperD, DD, or generally any pup with a tad less tight bass and less high end spike.
Click to expand...

Don't forget you can change magnets, pots, and caps, to improve your PU's tone, and its a lot cheaper than buying and selling half a dozen PU's that don't quite do what you need. Each of the six alnico guitar magnets have a difefrent EQ & output, so you can really dial in that magic tone.

Geez, I've really taken a beating on that "rocker science" commnet. But it did fit, unlike my other typos.
 
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