JJ ECC83S Tube Report

[JLagoon]

Hey guys,

I did an experiment of swapping the V5 (effect loop) tube of my triaxis with 2 types of tube: JJ ECC83S Balanced and High Gain. Unfortunately, I got them mixed up, and Bob told me that one couldn't tell which one is which by appearance.

After googling, I found an interview transcript in which Bob was interviewed about JJ tubes. He said that the high gain preamp tube has "a faster filament rise time." So, to solve my problem of distinguishing the 2 tubes, I timed the "glow time" of the 2 tubes with a stopwatch. I did 3 trials without a stopwatch, and 3 trials with a stopwatch. I also made recordings of them.

It turned out that one tube glowed 4 - 5 seconds faster than the other one did. If my assumption is correct, the "glow-faster" one is the high gain one. I'm still waiting Bob's confirmation on this. And in terms of sound, the "glow-faster" tube seems to have more saturation or perhaps more gain (about 10%) than the other one does. Power chords are intense sounding.

On contrary, the "glow-slower" tube sounds less compressed and brighter (not more treble or mid), and more articulate. This is probably the balanced preamp tube. I chose to use this one, instead of the high gain one for V5.

In addition to these 2 tubes, I also did a comparison with Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH Made in Russia 03 05 (not sure what these two numbers mean) preamp tube. Although the EH tube has a pretty nice mid, the JJ tube (high gain or balanced) is more balanced and open sounding with a tighter low end bass.

Conclusion: Different preamp tubes do have an effect on your tone, and the effect can be quite drastic. It's comparable to adjusting the pole pieces of your pickups. Also, at least to me, there is something as having too much gain.

Link: http://www.insaneguitar.com/hardnheavy/interviews/eurotubes.html

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: JJ ECC83S Tube Report

In addition to these 2 tubes, I also did a comparison with Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH Made in Russia 03 05 (not sure what these two numbers mean) preamp tube. Although the EH tube has a pretty nice mid, the JJ tube (high gain or balanced) is more balanced and open sounding with a tighter low end bass.

My experience in my Mesa Boogie Mark IIIs and Mark IV is very different. I found the EH12AX7s brighter, punchier, and with deeper, tighter bass. The JJ's sounded much darker, smoother perhaps; and a little noisier and sometimes susceptible to being microphonic. In the V1 socket (clean tone), the EH was a clear winner--I favored it's brighter, crisper tone.

Conclusion: Different preamp tubes do have an effect on your tone, and the effect can be quite drastic. It's comparable to adjusting the pole pieces of your pickups. Also, at least to me, there is something as having too much gain.

This was a real epiphany for me, too. My amps responded really differently with different tubes in the various sockets.

Further experimentation led me to installing a GT-12AX7-M "Mullard clone" in the V1 sockets of my Mark Series amps. They sound a little more "musical" than the EH variant, with a creamy top end and a very lively feel. They are not as reliable as the EH, I went through several that were noisy and a couple that failed. The powerful Mesa combos can be tough on tubes.

In my Mark IV, I also opted for a GT-M in the V-3 socket (for the high gain lead channel). At this point one Mark III has a GT-M in V-3, one an EH--a subtle difference in the no stripe early Mark III versus my blue striper. Interesting.

And in the sockets for the R2, the JJs deliver the dark crunch and singing tone that makes these channels for driving blues.

And I totally agree that you can have too much gain--I want the amp to sing, and not sound so compressed that it sounds muddy, choked and constipated.

Bill

 

[JLagoon]

Re: JJ ECC83S Tube Report

My experience in my Mesa Boogie Mark IIIs and Mark IV is very different. I found the EH12AX7s brighter, punchier, and with deeper, tighter bass. The JJ's sounded much darker, smoother perhaps; and a little noisier and sometimes susceptible to being microphonic. In the V1 socket (clean tone), the EH was a clear winner--I favored it's brighter, crisper tone.
Bill

I can see how that works for you. My triaxis sounded harsher with EH tubes, and JJ tubes tame the harshness. EH tubes does have a pretty mid that makes it sound bright, I think.

By the way, how does the Mark III compare to Mark IV? :dance:

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: JJ ECC83S Tube Report

I'd be curious to hear how you guys like the long plate 803S. I've read it really only needs to be in heads because due to design it is more susceptible to vibrations.

Luke

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: JJ ECC83S Tube Report

The ECC803S is my favorite pre tube from JJ. I also heard that long plate tubes are susceptible to vibrations from speakers, so they suggest it in heads.
I only have one, and I've used it in loud combos with no problems, so who knows.

I think its a good idea for any tube amp enthusiast to have a whole collection of pre tubes, since they don't cost all that much. I tend to try all my best tubes on a new amp, then determine the winner, and leave'em in there.
All amps tend to favor different tubes, so there's no reason to debate which pre tubes are the best. If I buy a new pre tube, sometimes I'll check it against what's already in my amps. I'm not obsessed....I just do it for fun.

One thing is for sure though. I like to hear tubes on amps that are cranked to the optimal level, then hear the tubes with my best pickups.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: JJ ECC83S Tube Report

By the way, how does the Mark III compare to Mark IV? :dance:

The big Mark III Coliseum (200 watts/reverb/EQ) head and the Mesa 412 C90/EVM Halfback cab is my favorite amp to play through. Most of the time I only use it on the 1/2 power setting--it's TOO dynamic. Loud cleans like you'd get from a Fender Twin (though with less bass), and no other amp can sing like a Boogie. Small footprint for a 412.

The Mark III combo that I have is a SimulClass/Reverb/EQ/EVM version with a mix of 6L6s and EL34s in the Class A sockets. A very sweet amp, perfect for any situation. Mine is in cream vinyl and gold grillecloth, which is about 100 times more rare than the hardwood cabs. I have the matching EVM Theile cab. Very small footprint for an amp that will embarrass a lot of half stacks. The Simul-Class gives it a little creamier top-end than the Coliseum; it distorts easier, and has bit of "British upper-mids" mixed into the the tone. Very pleasing, and very satisfying.

My Mark IV is a small EVM combo, and I have a matching EVM Theile cab for this one, too. Very similar to the Mark III combo, with a much bigger learning curve. More control over the power amp, more control over the lead channel, more control over the R2 crunch channel, and a much better loop. Might not be the best "live amp" ever, but it can give you lots of variation. If you do your homework and understand how it works, it is great. If you let a lot of knobs and switches intimidate you--get a Mark III.

The Graphic EQs on the amps are very effective in shaping the lead tones. The Mark III has some "PULL" switches that make it easy to go from Strat to Les Paul, say.

I've settled in with the Mark IV as the main amp that I use with my cover band--and we cover a lot--from classic rock, blues, country, jazz--you name it, we do it. I don't like to take the Cream Mark III combo into a smokey atmosphere. For outdoor gigs, I love using the big Coliseum. For smaller things, I can use a Maverick or DC-3 (though these little pocket rockets LOVE to be cranked!)

I've got a great collection of Mesas, and frankly, I can't imagine playing anything else.

Bill