Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
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Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
The pups in my most of my guitars are vintage--vintage hot.
With low output pups you get an overall larger sound with a bit more girth. Usually they have more highs than high output pups as well as less lows and mids.
They are much easier to keep clean when you are wanting to play clean passages, just roll down that volume knob.
When overdriven they have a "sweeter" sound overall.
With too much gain the low end can flub out, they can get TOO saturated, they don't have as much compression as high output pups.
Clean boosts are more needed with vintage/low output pups.
Luke
The pups in my most of my guitars are vintage--vintage hot.
With low output pups you get an overall larger sound with a bit more girth. Usually they have more highs than high output pups as well as less lows and mids.
They are much easier to keep clean when you are wanting to play clean passages, just roll down that volume knob.
When overdriven they have a "sweeter" sound overall.
With too much gain the low end can flub out, they can get TOO saturated, they don't have as much compression as high output pups.
Clean boosts are more needed with vintage/low output pups.
Luke
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
To weak is just a drag...
But generally, vintage output pickups make you work a little harder to shape the tone with your hands.
That's a good thing...puts more of your own personality into your playing and gives you a more unique tone.
High output pickups tend to make everyone who uses them sound more similar or the same, IMO.
It's why I rarely bring my guitars with humbuckers and usuually bring my Tele or Strat to the gig.
Lew
To weak is just a drag...
But generally, vintage output pickups make you work a little harder to shape the tone with your hands.
That's a good thing...puts more of your own personality into your playing and gives you a more unique tone.
High output pickups tend to make everyone who uses them sound more similar or the same, IMO.
It's why I rarely bring my guitars with humbuckers and usuually bring my Tele or Strat to the gig.
Lew
Matt Blackett
New member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Low output humbuckers seem to have more character and string-to-string detail to my ears. '59s, Seths, and real PAFs just have a ton of vibe. I got a chance to play one of Van Halen's Kramers a few years ago and it had an old PAF in it. It was really microphonic but so detailed and deep--just a brilliant, inspiring pickup. In fact, my favorite humbuckers are always just a little microphonic because there's so much character there. If I need more sustain, I'll use a booster or just run more gain. I have so much distortion at my disposal with my amp and pedals that I don't feel the need to get it from my pickup.
Of course, having said that, I love my Trembucker Distortion but I do gravitate toward the '59.
Low output humbuckers seem to have more character and string-to-string detail to my ears. '59s, Seths, and real PAFs just have a ton of vibe. I got a chance to play one of Van Halen's Kramers a few years ago and it had an old PAF in it. It was really microphonic but so detailed and deep--just a brilliant, inspiring pickup. In fact, my favorite humbuckers are always just a little microphonic because there's so much character there. If I need more sustain, I'll use a booster or just run more gain. I have so much distortion at my disposal with my amp and pedals that I don't feel the need to get it from my pickup.
Of course, having said that, I love my Trembucker Distortion but I do gravitate toward the '59.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
The last year or so I've been gravitating towards using lower output pickups. Sold my JB, got the Brobucker, love the Little '59, Tele pickups are remaining stock. The hottest I go is the CC and AZ. The AZ seems a little hotter than the CC but not by much. They're both medium output.
What I love about the lower output pickups is the clarity, not so much the lack of push like a high output pickup. And this is why.....the DiMarzio PAF. I had that in the bridge position of one of my guitars and it was so easy to play with and was so clean, clear and pushed like it was hotter than it really is. For a second I thought I was using a 12-14k pickup but it's 8k. Totally amazing. The '78 is another one like that. When I played Lew's Squier with the '78 in it, it reminded me of the PAF but with an A2 mag. Very open, clear, and articulate but just a tad hotter than the PAF. Every note in the chords just rang out beautifully.
High output pickups have their place, which was originally for overdriving the input of very low gain amps back in the day when that was all that was available. But today, you could take a Strat with a pair of '59's through a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier or some other high gain amp and pull off some serious metal riffage. Then plug in to a Bassman or an Aurora (cheap plug) and play some blues or classic rock. There's just more diversity available with lower output humbuckers.
The last year or so I've been gravitating towards using lower output pickups. Sold my JB, got the Brobucker, love the Little '59, Tele pickups are remaining stock. The hottest I go is the CC and AZ. The AZ seems a little hotter than the CC but not by much. They're both medium output.
What I love about the lower output pickups is the clarity, not so much the lack of push like a high output pickup. And this is why.....the DiMarzio PAF. I had that in the bridge position of one of my guitars and it was so easy to play with and was so clean, clear and pushed like it was hotter than it really is. For a second I thought I was using a 12-14k pickup but it's 8k. Totally amazing. The '78 is another one like that. When I played Lew's Squier with the '78 in it, it reminded me of the PAF but with an A2 mag. Very open, clear, and articulate but just a tad hotter than the PAF. Every note in the chords just rang out beautifully.
High output pickups have their place, which was originally for overdriving the input of very low gain amps back in the day when that was all that was available. But today, you could take a Strat with a pair of '59's through a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier or some other high gain amp and pull off some serious metal riffage. Then plug in to a Bassman or an Aurora (cheap plug) and play some blues or classic rock. There's just more diversity available with lower output humbuckers.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Since Erik brought them up.....the Brobucker and 78 are both fall in the vintage hot category. I've got a Brobucker in my R8 and a 78 in my CU24. Those pups have a nice balance of power and clarity that you don't find in either other category.
The 78 has a very aggressive tone/feel, but with a bit of fiddling with the tone knob you can get a very smooth sound.
Like the others said the lower output stuff seems to have a deeper sound, and other people claim that they let the wood speak more.
Luke
Since Erik brought them up.....the Brobucker and 78 are both fall in the vintage hot category. I've got a Brobucker in my R8 and a 78 in my CU24. Those pups have a nice balance of power and clarity that you don't find in either other category.
The 78 has a very aggressive tone/feel, but with a bit of fiddling with the tone knob you can get a very smooth sound.
Like the others said the lower output stuff seems to have a deeper sound, and other people claim that they let the wood speak more.
Luke
Imp
New member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Pros-
everyone can hear more of your actual technique - it matters what pick and style you use more than with a hotter pickup
you can clean up nicely, and boost with a pedal if you want a hotter signal
more definition under gain than an equivalent, hotter pickup
makes you adjust to a more accurate technique overall - i'll play through my guitar with a screamin' demon (hot vintage output) then switch to a guitar with a hotter pickup (tonezone) - the precision comes across with you!
cons
everyone can hear your flaws, bad muting and mistakes more!
on vintage-build (no wax, etc) pickups, you can sometimes get a bit of microphony..
i use the '59, demon and phat cat in different bridges, as well as a tonezone in a 7 string - my favourite is the demon! it sits at 10-12k, just between a '59 and a custom 5.. it's clear and articulate without being weedy with chords, and has a hint of the distortion's aggressive treble..
tom
Pros-
everyone can hear more of your actual technique - it matters what pick and style you use more than with a hotter pickup
you can clean up nicely, and boost with a pedal if you want a hotter signal
more definition under gain than an equivalent, hotter pickup
makes you adjust to a more accurate technique overall - i'll play through my guitar with a screamin' demon (hot vintage output) then switch to a guitar with a hotter pickup (tonezone) - the precision comes across with you!
cons
everyone can hear your flaws, bad muting and mistakes more!
on vintage-build (no wax, etc) pickups, you can sometimes get a bit of microphony..
i use the '59, demon and phat cat in different bridges, as well as a tonezone in a 7 string - my favourite is the demon! it sits at 10-12k, just between a '59 and a custom 5.. it's clear and articulate without being weedy with chords, and has a hint of the distortion's aggressive treble..
tom
Curly
Moe's Bluesman
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
use vintage type pickups, and let the amp or pedal do the work if you need more gain ... you'll have a more individual tone, and be rewarded more in the end.
but then, I'm just old school
that's the essence of the matter, IMO.Lewguitar said:
use vintage type pickups, and let the amp or pedal do the work if you need more gain ... you'll have a more individual tone, and be rewarded more in the end.
but then, I'm just old school
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
My kinda guy! :laugh2:
Curly said:that's the essence of the matter, IMO.
use vintage type pickups, and let the amp or pedal do the work if you need more gain ... you'll have a more individual tone, and be rewarded more in the end.
but then, I'm just old school
My kinda guy! :laugh2:
baritone
Well-known member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Low output humbuckers give you that really glassy treble. When you hear the screech of high output pickups with distortion, it is actually a high midrange. High output pickups compromise that really high register. Although high output humbuckers sell a mot more, it is low output HBs and SCs which are really desired by experienced players. Run a guitar with a low output humbucker into a distortion or fuzz pedal, and you can get the coolest saxaphone sounds.
Low output humbuckers give you that really glassy treble. When you hear the screech of high output pickups with distortion, it is actually a high midrange. High output pickups compromise that really high register. Although high output humbuckers sell a mot more, it is low output HBs and SCs which are really desired by experienced players. Run a guitar with a low output humbucker into a distortion or fuzz pedal, and you can get the coolest saxaphone sounds.
watersbluebird
New member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
i think i'm cracking up reading these posts. i'm sure that you all know what you're talking about, but why would anyone want a guitar to sound like a sax? pardon my ignorance.
i think i'm cracking up reading these posts. i'm sure that you all know what you're talking about, but why would anyone want a guitar to sound like a sax? pardon my ignorance.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Because then you can say "My guitar tone blows". If your guitar sounds like a harmonica, then you can say "My guitar tone sucks, and also blows":laugh2:
I go through phases, and I have a lot of guitars with low output humbuckers. That's generally where I end up. If I had only one, it would be something under 10k. I don't even mind them split, because often I'm splitting them with a middle single coil, so the draw down in output really gives a good clean spank to the sound, even if the amp tone is at half-grit overdrive. But sometimes you just need 15-20k+ in the bridge to tear your amp's face off. And yes, you are sacrificing some of yourself when you use them, but that's just the kind of sell-out I am sometimes.
Because then you can say "My guitar tone blows". If your guitar sounds like a harmonica, then you can say "My guitar tone sucks, and also blows":laugh2:
I go through phases, and I have a lot of guitars with low output humbuckers. That's generally where I end up. If I had only one, it would be something under 10k. I don't even mind them split, because often I'm splitting them with a middle single coil, so the draw down in output really gives a good clean spank to the sound, even if the amp tone is at half-grit overdrive. But sometimes you just need 15-20k+ in the bridge to tear your amp's face off. And yes, you are sacrificing some of yourself when you use them, but that's just the kind of sell-out I am sometimes.
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alanfc
New member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
THanks guys, I go away for 2 hrs. and BAM
>>>I have a bonus question,
seeing as height is not my concern for increasing output (I have a boost pedal for that), what can you say about the clarity related to height.
Is it the same 'ol closer=louder/less detail, and further= quieter/more detail.?
This question is up because I just put a Lil 59 in my Strat bridge last night and was shocked that it didn't have the balls my Tele Lil 59 had....then I looked at the tone chart ...silly me .
So I'm keeping this thing in there and will join the club. I do want clarity. I work hard and I want it to be heard.
THanks guys, I go away for 2 hrs. and BAM
>>>I have a bonus question,
seeing as height is not my concern for increasing output (I have a boost pedal for that), what can you say about the clarity related to height.
Is it the same 'ol closer=louder/less detail, and further= quieter/more detail.?
This question is up because I just put a Lil 59 in my Strat bridge last night and was shocked that it didn't have the balls my Tele Lil 59 had....then I looked at the tone chart ...silly me .
So I'm keeping this thing in there and will join the club. I do want clarity. I work hard and I want it to be heard.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Crank that Little '59 up there a little closer to the strings. With some humbuckers, depending on their wind, and magnet strength (yes it matters even though it's not in direct contact with the strings), they can get muddier the closer they get to the strings but open up when backed off. Then there's some that sound wonderful when they're right up there and horrid when backed off. You just have to mess with it and listen for the sweet spot. You'll know it when you hear it.
Crank that Little '59 up there a little closer to the strings. With some humbuckers, depending on their wind, and magnet strength (yes it matters even though it's not in direct contact with the strings), they can get muddier the closer they get to the strings but open up when backed off. Then there's some that sound wonderful when they're right up there and horrid when backed off. You just have to mess with it and listen for the sweet spot. You'll know it when you hear it.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
Well any Tele Bridge pup is going to have more perceived guts and balls than an equivalent strat pup because of the mounting and stringing.
My point on height was simply that a pup at the right height will have more output than one sitting too low. If you get too far from the strings the pups will be less articulate and low output. You have to remember you are working within a magnetic field that is in flux when the string is plucked. The closer the pup or inductor is the more efficient it will be, however after a certain point the magnetism will effect your sustain.
Luke
alanfc said:
Well any Tele Bridge pup is going to have more perceived guts and balls than an equivalent strat pup because of the mounting and stringing.
My point on height was simply that a pup at the right height will have more output than one sitting too low. If you get too far from the strings the pups will be less articulate and low output. You have to remember you are working within a magnetic field that is in flux when the string is plucked. The closer the pup or inductor is the more efficient it will be, however after a certain point the magnetism will effect your sustain.
Luke
JohnnyGuitar
New member
Re: Joys/challenges of low output Humbuckers
IMO harmonics are even richer with low output humbuckers...
Low output pickups tend to sound muddy with high gain amps... good for alternative dirty music but really bad for metal players... that's why they use high output pups for the heaviest stuff... (yeah, they also like high output no matter what ).
High output pups also tend to sound darker which is better for metal...
If you want to play thrush or nu metal use high output humbuckers for everything else you can go for lower output humbuckers and get great results... Slash gets a great rock tone with vintage output pups...
One more thing- almost every non active high output humbucker I've heard in an alder body guitar sounded muddy JB's being an exeption.. the others probably do not have enough treble...
taphappy said:
IMO harmonics are even richer with low output humbuckers...
Low output pickups tend to sound muddy with high gain amps... good for alternative dirty music but really bad for metal players... that's why they use high output pups for the heaviest stuff... (yeah, they also like high output no matter what
).High output pups also tend to sound darker which is better for metal...
If you want to play thrush or nu metal use high output humbuckers for everything else you can go for lower output humbuckers and get great results... Slash gets a great rock tone with vintage output pups...
One more thing- almost every non active high output humbucker I've heard in an alder body guitar sounded muddy JB's being an exeption.. the others probably do not have enough treble...
