Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

[Red_Label]

I've been tweaking non-stop since I got it two weeks ago. It just ain't happenin for me yet. Makes me miss the Shiva I sent packing last week all the more. I've tried different cabs, different used tubes, and last night I replaced all the tubes with brand new tubes (4-new Winged-Cs, 4-new Sovtek LPS, and 2-new Shuguang 12AX7Bs). Still not doin' it for me. Adjusted the bias each time I've swapped tubes too.

Tonight may be the make-or-break point for this amp with me. Going to try the one cab I haven't tried yet. So far, I've been running it into a Bogner OS2X12 with V30s. Seems harsh and in-your-face. But I've had a love/hate thing with that cab since day one. For gigs, it's great. But just too harsh for home playing. And it sounds "sweeter" through my Marshall JCM900 1960B loaded with vintage H30s. But it also seems more mushy through that cab. More pleasant to the ears, but note definition seems to get lost. Tonight I'll try it through my 75T-loaded 4X12 to see if that gets rid of the mush that the H30s seem to give.

That's about all I've got. I've played with the switches, tone and gain controls to the point of overkill and haven't found what I'm looking for. I've tried to be VERY patient, because I've heard that the XTC sometimes takes a while to get dialed-in to one's preference. That's what I miss about the EL34 Shiva the most -- just set-it-and-forget-it. Sounded great right off the bat (after I replaced the shot tubes the seller had sent in it).

The fact is, my Traynor YCS100H sounds BETTER than the XTC at this point. There were days that I thought it sounded better than the Shiva too. But it was back and forth. So far, the Traynor's got the XTC beat (for me). And I paid all of $600 for the Traynor when I bought it in mint condition. It'll do everything the Bogner will and then some. I'm not so attached to a name that I will ignore the difference just for the sake of having a "boutique" name on my amp. I want the amp to impress with its sound.

So I dunno... gettin' close to sending the Bogner on it's way and maybe just continuing to enjoy the Traynor. Disappointing though. This has been the amp of my dreams for a decade, and it's just not delivering thus far. Will give her another shot or two though because I don't want to live with any more regrets.

 

[Kam]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

This...I was not expecting.

By the way, did you mean to put this in The Trading Post?

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

What you need... is another Shiva.

J/K

... but not really.

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

well, if it's not what you really want and you find yourself being more satisfied with a $600 amp, then you, most assuredly, will be able to sell the Bogner and be $3000-$4000 richer...again. nothing wrong with that!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

This...I was not expecting.

By the way, did you mean to put this in The Trading Post?

LOL... no. Just wanted to get people's input. Maybe someone can talk me out of my insanity here. Maybe someone can offer some settings or things to try that I'm missing. Cause I really don't wanna admit defeat here and send the XTC packing. I REALLY want to like it and have it be the end-of-the-road for me. That was my intention all along in spending so much money on an amp -- to finally have THE amp for me, and forget about GAS (at least for a while).

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

What you need... is another Shiva.

J/K

... but not really.

LOL... yeah, that's what I'm starting to wonder. That's the exact same amp model that I just FedEx'd out last week to a (happy) buyer in CA. And I do find myself missing it a bit now. That's a good price for sure.

If I end-up selling the XTC, and that amp is still available, I may be contacting you.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

So far, I've been running it into a Bogner OS2X12 with V30s. For gigs, it's great. But just too harsh for home playing.

Did you try an attenuator with it? If you like it at gig volume but not bedroom levels, an attenuator might help.

And it sounds "sweeter" through my Marshall JCM900 1960B loaded with vintage H30s. But it also seems more mushy through that cab. More pleasant to the ears, but note definition seems to get lost.

Also, maybe try a V30/H30 combo in the Bogner OS2x12. If you like the sweetness of the H30 and the definition of the V30, a combination might be perfect for this amp. Never hurts to try!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

well, if it's not what you really want and you find yourself being more satisfied with a $600 amp, then you, most assuredly, will be able to sell the Bogner and be $3000-$4000 richer...again. nothing wrong with that!

Totally agree. The only thing I differ with is the selling price. Market is VERY depressed right now. I bought the Classic for $2200. In better times, I would have had to pay $2500-2800 for it in the exact same condition/age. So I'm not counting on getting any more than around $2200 back for it. And when you subtract Ebay and PayPal fees... we're gettin' way down there.

I got lucky with the Shiva I just sold, because a guy was watching the auction I had going and it didn't meet the reserve price. So he sent me an email offering to do our own deal outside of Ebay. He ended-up sending me a cashier's check for $1400 for it. A good deal for him (cause I paid $1600 + $65 for shipping) just last April for it, plus I spend $200 completely retubing it. But I still came away ahead because Ebay and Paypal fees would have probably eaten-up more than that.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Did you try an attenuator with it? If you like it at gig volume but not bedroom levels, an attenuator might help.



Also, maybe try a V30/H30 combo in the Bogner OS2x12. If you like the sweetness of the H30 and the definition of the V30, a combination might be perfect for this amp. Never hurts to try!

Good ideas man! Will try them! I've also heard that a T75 and V30 combo can be good, so I could try that as well. Willing to try anything at this point to keep this amp.

But I also know when a dead-horse has been beaten, so eventually I'll send her down the road if nothing is working. Because even though I've dreamed of this amp for years, I'm not married to the idea of keeping it just because of that. It's got to carry its weight.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Wow... I see this got moved to the Trading Post. Wacky. I haven't even said I was putting it up for sale at this point. Still looking for ideas to salvage our "relationsip", and having a friend who's got a 101B pop-by my place sometime to pick his brain. Hard to get as many ideas cause not everyone visits the Trading Post. I don't come here all that often.

:/

 

[J Moose]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Disappointing though. This has been the amp of my dreams for a decade, and it's just not delivering thus far. Will give her another shot or two though because I don't want to live with any more regrets.

If the XTC was the 'dream amp' for a decade, what gave it that status? Had you played one 10 years ago and loved it? Maybe with a different instrument or musical mindset?

Sorry to hear it ain't working out so far...

Wish I had some advice on things to try but aside from radically different speakers, I don't and I'm honestly not a huge fan of the XTC or Uberschall. There IS a rather 'in your face' quality to the upper-mids that hits me like an ice-pick. Cuts through a mix but it isn't what I like to hear and have behind me while playing... Soldano's move me in much the same way. Something about the inherent 'voice' of the amp that can't be dialed out.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

If the XTC was the 'dream amp' for a decade, what gave it that status? Had you played one 10 years ago and loved it? Maybe with a different instrument or musical mindset?

Sorry to hear it ain't working out so far...

Wish I had some advice on things to try but aside from radically different speakers, I don't and I'm honestly not a huge fan of the XTC or Uberschall. There IS a rather 'in your face' quality to the upper-mids that hits me like an ice-pick. Cuts through a mix but it isn't what I like to hear and have behind me while playing... Soldano's move me in much the same way. Something about the inherent 'voice' of the amp that can't be dialed out.

I hear you. My Shiva was similar in those roaring, in-your-face mids way.

Still trying whatever I can to love her though. I just ordered a Carl Martin PlexiTone with the idea of using it on my Fender Twin. But I may have to run it into the Blue channel on the XTC in Plexi mode and see what I can come up with.

Oh wait... now this thread's back in the Amplifiers section. LOL. Never know where I'm going to find it!

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I've never directly compared a regular 101B like mine to a Classic, although I've tried the Classic in a store once or twice. I like mine, but sometimes wish it was a 2 EL-34 amp, just because of it's insane volume.

See what your friend has to say when he checks it out.

How's the Eleven Rack? Maybe you should spend a couple years with the 11 and a stereo tube power amp.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I've never directly compared a regular 101B like mine to a Classic, although I've tried the Classic in a store once or twice. I like mine, but sometimes wish it was a 2 EL-34 amp, just because of it's insane volume.

See what your friend has to say when he checks it out.

How's the Eleven Rack? Maybe you should spend a couple years with the 11 and a stereo tube power amp.

What about your half-power switch Joe? The one on my Classic definitely cuts it in half, because I was running my AmpHead bias tester on the outside tubes when I switched to half-power and discovered that way that Bogner pairs V7/V9, and V8/V10 on the XTC instead of outside-inside pairs like my Traynor. Half-power on the XTC is V8 and V10 as I recall. V7 and V9 light-up, but are at idle. Dunno if a guy could just completely remove those tubes or not, but they're not generating any power. That's what drove me nuts before I figured-out what was going-on. Thought I had a dead tube (or socket!), but kept moving things around (except the in-line bias probes) and finally figured-out what was going-on.

Still digging the 11R. Like most peices of gear, there are days when you swear it's the best piece of gear EVAR, and those where you're not so sure. But generally, it's been awesome and I've been watching some rack tube amp auctions for a while now getting my feet wet for possibly going that route. I'm mostly eye-balling the Marshall 9100,9200, and 9005 rack units. Mostly because they are decently-priced. The VHT 2:90:2 is supposed to be the shiz, but they don't come as cheap. Usually at least twice what the Marshalls go for. I do love the 11R through my Rocktron V300 SS power amp, but definitely want to give a tube unit a good try. Also would like to try a good FRFR setup with the 11R (like the QSC K10 or K12 in particular).

Not giving-up on the XTC yet though. Gonna keep plugging-away with different speakers for a bit, and also looking forward to seeing what the Carl Martin PlexiTone that's on-the-way does into the plexi mode on the Blue channel (as well as what it'll do into my Fender Twin).

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

it's been awesome and i've been watching some rack tube amp auctions for a while now getting my feet wet for possibly going that route. I'm mostly eye-balling the marshall 9100,9200, and 9005 rack units. Mostly because they are decently-priced. The vht 2:90:2 is supposed to be the shiz, but they don't come as cheap. Usually at least twice what the marshalls go for. I do love the 11r through my rocktron v300 ss power amp, but definitely want to give a tube unit a good try.

I have an ENGL E920 2x100-watt stereo EL34 power amp for sale. If interested, let me know.

 

[TheProphet]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I think this is the one problem with the Ecstacy. It's reputation builds it up to be the ultimate amp in many regards. The problem being is that someone's ultimate tone is not linked to brand name or price, just a sound in their head. I'd keep playing amps as much as possible until I found that sound.

Don't get me wrong, Bogner's are some of the best amps out there, just might not be the amp for you.

I'd almost run a stereo rig with your Traynor and Twin

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Before you give up on the XTC Classic, try trading it straight across for a regular 101B, and see if that's what you were hoping for. The 101B has more control over each channel's gain structure.

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

My thoughts (for what they are worth) (intended in the best possible way here)

Rules I repeat to myself when looking at amps -
Someone should not have to talk himself/herself self into liking an amp. I do not like V30's very much. V30's do not work for me with very many amps, and then in a very limited use. This nearly always involves a fair amounts of gain (I have 8 cabs so talking to myself about speakers is often an issue!). Use your ears and not someone elses to decide if the core tone of an amp is more to your liking. Do not let the value of an amp the call use your ears. Do not let "looks cool" get into the process of decisions about amps/guitars/pedals/cabs/etc. Speakers are generally far more important when looking at an amp than I wish to admit initially (in my case I have enough to try to help that out). Guitar pickups are next most important thing to consider. Then volume levels are next most important - What sounds good in a stadium may not sound so good at Joe's Bar and Grill (do not talk yourself in "sounds good cranked" if you do not live in a "cranked" world). The reverse is also true about volume. There is no perfect amp - or tone. There is no amp that does everything - no matter what anyone says. Make sure all those expensive pedals you love (more than the cost of the amp in this case) work with the amp. Remember how many different amps one can buy for the money. Every day (or at least once a week) there is a new great amp that is developed - see there is no perfect amp.

 

[ricc]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I've recently used a Bogner Shiva, Orange AD30, JCM800 and plexi reissue. A Blackstar 200 and you know what? My favourite of them all is my Laney GH100L. $450. Dream amps can be dreams only whereas reality can be totally diferent.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

What tone are you expecting from the xtc? Where are you getting lost on the dials? Not enough gain? Too much mids? Need more smooth and fatness? Crank it (with an attenuator) or get different tubes. It's a loud amp that sounds good on low volumes but shines on gig/rehearsal levels.

The xtc by nature is a very 'piano clean' kind of amp with a ton of mids on board. I've found myself taming these high frequencies on my 101B and ended up with V30 speakers in a padded marshall cab and E34L power tubes for some more low mids. That was the ticket for me.