Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Yeah, the controls on the XTC are similar to a mixing board. Noon is the natural sound. As a matter of fact, you could set all the controls to noon, except for the volumes, and have a perfect starting point.

Also, I can play shred and metal, but that's not really what I do....more of a Marc Ford/Bonamassa type player, so I dial the amp to sound like a Twin/Plexi/modded Marshall rhythm sound, then use the boost, Klon, or Fuzz's to get maximum gain. I only utilize the XTC's full gain capacity when running it low volume for practicing.

But mostly, the gain on the blue and red channel sound best around 1:00.

No matter what, play your buddy's 101B and see if it's more suiting to you. If so, it shouldn't be hard to find a straight trade on one. The Classic is VERY expensive new, and thus easier to unload.

Great points Joe. I had been running the tone controls on the Blue/Red channels at around 3:00 - Treble, 11:00 - Mids, and 3:00 Bass. But tonight, I found my sound at noon, noon, and noon. The old run-em-all-at-noon addage certainly applied for me here! I am running the global Presence very high though, because I like what it does to the clean channel, and I've always liked a nice bite on the OD tones.

Will definitely get together with my buddy with the 101B when we're both done with our medical shinanigans...

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Also, maybe try a V30/H30 combo in the Bogner OS2x12. If you like the sweetness of the H30 and the definition of the V30, a combination might be perfect for this amp. Never hurts to try!

Just what I was going to suggest.

 

[woemoejack]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

as others have said, mix up those speaker combos. v30/75 or v30/h30. a 4x12 with v30/t75 x pattern really made my shiva come alive.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

What you need... is another Shiva.

J/K

... but not really.

That Bogner os212 cab looks just like the Avatar Vintage 212.
http://avatarspeakers.com/
Awesome cab.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Just spent another quality couple of hours with the XTC this AM. Really starting to dig it now. It must be said that I also did plenty of A/B'ing with the Traynor and am still diggin the Traynor too. But I'm starting to hear the differences between the two and appreciate them more and more. The Traynor's got more of a "standard" Marshall roar to it (when in Marshall mode), whereas the XTC seems a bit more refined, with a bit of an edge to it. Both sound great. I guess that's what I finally accepted. I was basing my feelings on the XTC on expecting it to blow the Traynor away, or at least clearly shine. It didn't. But it does its own thing awesomely and I am happy with that.

Didn't have time to mess with swapping speakers out, but I will definitely do that at some point. Especially curious about putting a 75 in place of one of the V30s in the Bogner cab. A few years ago, I tried the 75s and H30s in an X-pattern in the 1960B cab and don't remember thinking it was anything special (for me). But then again, it wasn't with the XTC that I tried it. I think that too my ears, the H30s and the 75s aren't different enough. Whereas the more scooped, hi-fi'ish tone of the 75 might really gel well with the hard midrange and breakup of the V30. I know that combo is a popular one, enough so that Bogner puts it in the Ubercab. Wish I had one of those handy.

I did something STUPID though, and luckily it didn't cause me grief. I was swapping back and forth between the two amps and the two cabs (1960B and Bogner 2x12) and at one point I turned both amps on and there was no sound at all. I started to have a bad feeling, so I shut them both off quickly and checked-out the backs of the amps and cabs. Sure enough, I'd plugged both cabs into each other and both amp heads into each other. Yikes! Luckily, it didn't cause any damage. Won't do that again! (I hope!)

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

That Bogner os212 cab looks just like the Avatar Vintage 212.
http://avatarspeakers.com/
Awesome cab.

Yeah, I noticed that a while back. I dunno which came first, but I'll say that the Bogner's got a serious THUMP to it for a 2X12. Dunno about the Avatar, as I've never tried one, but certainly would pick one up if the price was right.

 

[joelap]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

^ Wow, good save.

I almost wonder if these dream amps we aspire to are guaranteed to let some of us down. In the psychological sense that we have been hyping them up to be the holy grail as well as their price/availability not being something you can just cash your check and go grab at the local guitar center (at least most of us can't cash a check and go buy a new one). Because at the end of the day, its the same sets of fingers making the amp do its thing. I was really concerned about this when I bought my TGP-3, but knew I could easily flip it for a profit at the price I bought it for. Luckily, it delivered.

Seems like you're starting to dig it now. That's a good thing, but its also refreshing to see people who may not gel with these big ticket amps/pedals from time to time. Sometimes we lose sight on these interweb forums that after a certain price point, there is no real "better"... only "different", and "different" may not always be better! IE, $400 or $1000 tube screamer clones with a funky name and paint job with a circuit board covered in epoxy to hide the fact that it is just a tube screamer with tweaks. Musicians are usually the last type to admit that sometimes the emperor has no clothes. Glad to see someone admit they had to learn to love an expensive amp and it wasn't 72 virgins the second you plugged it in. Think about it, you coulda came on here feeling like a sucker and said how much you love it and then sold it on ebay and none of us would be the wiser. Thanks for not doing that!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

a 4x12 with v30/t75 x pattern really made my shiva come alive.

Yeah, that's what I think I'm gonna do next. Need to get the backs off and make sure the impedences on the speakers that I've got match. The Bogner cab is 8ohm, and wired parallel. So I think that means the speakers would be 16ohms. I'm pretty sure the 75s in the Marshall cab are 16s.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

Good luck with your quest... fwiw, I loved and still love my JCM800 from the day I plugged it in til bout 5 min ago. Same was with my 5150, and I miss that amp... but they are cheap enough not too sweat. If I were you, I'd think hard about what sounds you REALLY want or need from an amp... get a single channel simple, no frills amp that does it... all other sounds are in there with the volume knob and proper attack and maybe pedals. These channel switching things make you spend more time tweeking than playing... annoying too me.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

^ Wow, good save.

I almost wonder if these dream amps we aspire to are guaranteed to let some of us down. In the psychological sense that we have been hyping them up to be the holy grail as well as their price/availability not being something you can just cash your check and go grab at the local guitar center (at least most of us can't cash a check and go buy a new one). Because at the end of the day, its the same sets of fingers making the amp do its thing. I was really concerned about this when I bought my TGP-3, but knew I could easily flip it for a profit at the price I bought it for. Luckily, it delivered.

Seems like you're starting to dig it now. That's a good thing, but its also refreshing to see people who may not gel with these big ticket amps/pedals from time to time. Sometimes we lose sight on these interweb forums that after a certain price point, there is no real "better"... only "different", and "different" may not always be better! IE, $400 or $1000 tube screamer clones with a funky name and paint job with a circuit board covered in epoxy to hide the fact that it is just a tube screamer with tweaks. Musicians are usually the last type to admit that sometimes the emperor has no clothes. Glad to see someone admit they had to learn to love an expensive amp and it wasn't 72 virgins the second you plugged it in. Think about it, you coulda came on here feeling like a sucker and said how much you love it and then sold it on ebay and none of us would be the wiser. Thanks for not doing that!

Good stuff. Totally agree. Many people definitely are reluctant to admit that the gear they spent thousands of $$$ on isn't delivering for them. I'm certainly guilty of being a subjective "cheerleader" when I like stuff. But I'm pretty good at being an open book when I don't.

Just spent another couple hours (that makes about 4 hours today alone) with the XTC (didn't play the Traynor at all this time) and am growing fonder of it every minute. Spent most of the night on the Blue channel, but did some with the Red as well. Definitely itching to gig this thing now! Cause playing at home, with the master at 9:00-10:00 just isn't the same as really opening her up at a gig. Especially the outdoor gigs.

Ordered a full set of 14 red knobs today to replace the black ones. Was going to color-coordinate them. A pair of red knobs for the red channel gain and volume, a pair of blue for the blue channel, and a pair of green for the green channel. Then leave the tone knobs black, or maybe even replace those with chrome knobs that blend-in with the faceplate. But I couldn't find all of those colors in the high-quality style knobs like the stock Bogner ones. So I just found that style in red and ordered 14 of them. Will look pretty cool with those. Also going to order a road case for it soon. Never did get a road case for my Shiva, just used a soft cover. Same for the Traynor. But I figure that a head worth this much money ought to have a proper case to protect it. Used to have a road case for my old Hughes & Kettner Triamp Mk I. That was a great amp. I miss it. But what a beast! Weighed 96# in the road case. Backbreaker! with my herniated disks that I'm suffering from now, there's NO way I could lug that thing around...

 

[ken361]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I wouldnt throw 4 lps tubes in there just the PI! you want a good NOS maybe a RFT or a Japanese mullard for the v1, EH are pretty decent tubes. The chinese are a hit and miss, cheap tubes. Tht amp deserves better. I rolled a lot in my amp and theres only a few that sound smooth.

 

[joelap]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

^ I've had really, -REALLY- bad luck with EH 12AX7 tubes. 7 out of 8 brand new tubes tested -DEAD- on a tube tester when they arrived, 6 of which were brand new installed in California and shipped to CT. Conversely, I have quite a few cheapo chinese tubes from the early 90s which were shipped in the same tube amp when I bought it from friggin' RUSSIA and they all still perform well and test fine. They are backups for my backups.

Wasn't aware there was a such thing as a Japanese Mullard?

 

[metlking]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I have zero experiance with the XTC Classic......

I liked my 101b right off the bat but I didn't LOVE it until I tried it with Greenbacks.....I didn't like it with V-30's at all, too harsh. As far as tubes the best I tried in it were Shuguang EL34b.....I hated the =C= everybody raves about. I still love the amp and gig with it regularly, sometimes I wish it had less bells and whistles to tweak with!

From my experience the two most important knobs on the XTC are the mid control and the presence control. The tone can go from stellar to suck real quick with just a minor mis-tweak! This amp also taught me to play with less gain than I had in the past to find the tone I was looking for...........

Good luck!

*One more EDIT!* Lastly I found the amp to be less harsh by setting the bias a little colder than 70%. Where my XTC should be biased around 32ma, I set mine around 28-29ma.......

 

[ken361]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

^ I've had really, -REALLY- bad luck with EH 12AX7 tubes. 7 out of 8 brand new tubes tested -DEAD- on a tube tester when they arrived, 6 of which were brand new installed in California and shipped to CT. Conversely, I have quite a few cheapo chinese tubes from the early 90s which were shipped in the same tube amp when I bought it from friggin' RUSSIA and they all still perform well and test fine. They are backups for my backups.

Wasn't aware there was a such thing as a Japanese Mullard?

im only using 1 EH tube in my amp, the Matsu****a 12ax7 are close to mullards and there cheap

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I'm really glad you're starting to get into the XTC now but I think it goes to prove that what works for one may not work for another. I too would love to spend some quality time with both the Shiva and 101B but I am really happy with my current amps choices to the point where I have no need. I did do the "upgrade" thing when I went from my old Cornford MK50H to the newer 2 channel/ 2 effect loop MK50II only to be disappointed because it just did not have the same core sound. Sold it and found another old MK50 which is like home. I finally realised the old saying "don't fix it if it isn't broke".

Hopefully though you're getting there with the XTC and it's all going to work out.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I almost wonder if these dream amps we aspire to are guaranteed to let some of us down. In the psychological sense that we have been hyping them up to be the holy grail as well as their price/availability not being something you can just cash your check and go grab at the local guitar center (at least most of us can't cash a check and go buy a new one). Because at the end of the day, its the same sets of fingers making the amp do its thing. I was really concerned about this when I bought my TGP-3, but knew I could easily flip it for a profit at the price I bought it for. Luckily, it delivered.

I think there's also a learning period with certain amps. Not so much the learning the tone controls, which is obvious, but giving your time for your ear to learn the amp.

What I mean by that is if you're used to a certain amp, you're used to receiving certain sonic cues from that amp. You hit the string a certain way, the amp does a certain thing. You do something else, it does something else.

Enter a new amp. You do your certain things and the amp misses it's cues. You start listening for what the amp is missing instead of what's new that it's providing.

A good amp is an instrument unto itself, and sometimes you need to take awhile to learn it before you can really appreciate what it's bringing to the table. When I get a new amp I like to really dedicate myself to it for awhile as I feel that immersing yourself in it without A/Bing back and forth with your previous amp is the best way to unlock it's secrets.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I think there's also a learning period with certain amps. Not so much the learning the tone controls, which is obvious, but giving your time for your ear to learn the amp.

What I mean by that is if you're used to a certain amp, you're used to receiving certain sonic cues from that amp. You hit the string a certain way, the amp does a certain thing. You do something else, it does something else.

Enter a new amp. You do your certain things and the amp misses it's cues. You start listening for what the amp is missing instead of what's new that it's providing.

A good amp is an instrument unto itself, and sometimes you need to take awhile to learn it before you can really appreciate what it's bringing to the table. When I get a new amp I like to really dedicate myself to it for awhile as I feel that immersing yourself in it without A/Bing back and forth with your previous amp is the best way to unlock it's secrets.

Nice post. Nailed it.

 

[d1dsj]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

nice post. Nailed it.

+1.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I have zero experiance with the XTC Classic......

From my experience the two most important knobs on the XTC are the mid control and the presence control. The tone can go from stellar to suck real quick with just a minor mis-tweak! This amp also taught me to play with less gain than I had in the past to find the tone I was looking for...........

Good luck!

*One more EDIT!* Lastly I found the amp to be less harsh by setting the bias a little colder than 70%. Where my XTC should be biased around 32ma, I set mine around 28-29ma.......

I think you nailed it there. That's EXACTLY what I've learned with the XTC. It's ALL about the Mid and Presence controls. When I have those right, it's a raging (and yet refined) BEAST. If I get those wrong, it goes from riding that killer wave, to bland, mushy, whatever. The mids have to be somewhere between 11:00 and 3:00. Actually, higher seems okay, but it's awful in-your-face with that much mid. I can dime the bass or leave it at noon, no big difference there. Treble at noonish is fine. I am running the Presence at 3:00 to 4:00. I set it just enough to add a bright edge to the mid roar.

I switch back and forth between the H30-loaded 1960B, and the [now] Bogner 2X12 loaded with a V30 and T75. I'm not sure about that combo yet. It was pretty harsh when first did the swap this AM. Definitely prefer the H30s right now. Wish I had some Greenbacks to try. But I'm VERY happy with the H30s, so that's fine. I have to vary the controls a bit depending on what cab I'm playing (obviously).


I've got the bias around 31mA and am happy with that. I'm running it half-power mode on the New setting. Once it's warmed-up, I run a fan on it to extend the tube life.

Played for about three hours today and LOVED every minute of it (maybe outside the first "harsh" listen to the Bogner cab). Did a bunch of playing with the Bogner into the Marshall cab and the Traynor into the Bogner cab, for a stereo thing. It was simply awesome. The two compliment each other very well. Did spent the last hour or so back to just the XTC. But I've always dug the very full and lively sound of my Traynor mixed with the Shiva, and now the XTC.

Played through a whole bunch of different stuff, like old Thin Lizzy, Metallica, and Scorpions. This amp is amazingly versatile by just staying on the Red channel and rolling my volume knob back based on what type of stuff I'm playing.

I almost regret posting the thread with the title that I did, because it's becoming obvious that my "love affair" with this amp has begun!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Just not diggin' my Bogner XTC Classic at this point...

I think there's also a learning period with certain amps. Not so much the learning the tone controls, which is obvious, but giving your time for your ear to learn the amp.

What I mean by that is if you're used to a certain amp, you're used to receiving certain sonic cues from that amp. You hit the string a certain way, the amp does a certain thing. You do something else, it does something else.

Enter a new amp. You do your certain things and the amp misses it's cues. You start listening for what the amp is missing instead of what's new that it's providing.

A good amp is an instrument unto itself, and sometimes you need to take awhile to learn it before you can really appreciate what it's bringing to the table. When I get a new amp I like to really dedicate myself to it for awhile as I feel that immersing yourself in it without A/Bing back and forth with your previous amp is the best way to unlock it's secrets.

VERY well said, and I think that I've learned that in this case. I've had the Traynor for so long now, that everything second nature for me. I needed to give the Bogner time for me to work it out. The Shiva didn't seem near as hard to get dialed-in, but that would make sense as it seems to be a different (and more straight-forward) beast. I'm starting to get VERY comfortable with this amp, and have NO reason to doubt that it will indeed become my "holy grail" amp. It's already starting to feel very close to that now.

I guess it was like my wife, I had to become friends with it and get-to-know it first. Luckily, that relationship is still going strong after years.