Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

[jerryjg]

from my own experince you have the
1) Voxish Class a output stage Cleans, which are thick, and warm
2) Classic Fender-ish twin cleans, which are brilliant, Chimey and ring with a bell-tone
3) Acoustic type Amp, and similar cleans , which are very solid state like sterile but less grateing , and very "Hi-Fi".
This is from my limited understanding.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

dont forget - Tweed and early Marshall cleans which are woody, gusty, and fat

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

to truly break it down we'd almost have to talk tubes

 

[Sanford]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

To me cleans means: no clipping, no effects (including reverb...yes, it's an effect if added electronically), just the sound of the input being amplified.

What that doesn't mean is good tone. Now, a good clean tone is just tits and difficult to achieve. My idea of a good clean tone is a pure, full bodied guitar sound without the sterility or brittle harshness associated with a lot of amps available. Unfortunately the affordability and availability of that sound don't often coincide.

 

[BigAlTheBird]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

no effects (including reverb...yes, it's an effect if added electronically)

What if the reverb is a beautiful spring reverb tank, like what I've got in my amp? I'd say that 98% of the time, my reverb is on in some capacity and it adds quite a bit to the clean tone.

 

[thespricket]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

it's funny how the adjectives we use to describe tone really don't mean anything to anyone except us. Wooley, Sterile, Fat, Thin, Gusty, Woody, etc.

or maybe i need to go to bed...

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

Good point. I sometimes don't understand what people mean, as I'm sure I've been misunderstood as well.

The cleans I like usually start with single coil pickups. That's probably more important than the amp, at least to me. I like a amp/speaker combonation that highlights that sweet bell like chime of single coils, but still has a lot of warmth, and plenty of depth in bass.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

Even the most crystalline of tube guitar amp tones isn't really 'clean' in the technical sense. There is distortion happening even at the cleanest settings, it's just that most of us 'hear' this as 'warmth'.

Generally, when people think 'fender clean' they think blackface, but for me, there are three broad flavours of fender clean: tweed (fattest), blonde-brown (in-between) and blackface (brightest).

You can break it down even further than that, as this demonstration shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4xbAcNx-WI

-but for practical purposes, I think of tweed/brown-blonde/black. It's also worth taking into account the tonal differnces between 6V6 and 6L6 models, too.

Other classic clean tones:

-Vox AC30, and it's many descendants, incl. Matchless
-Roland JC120
-Marshall JTM45 (think re-speakered tweed bassman)
-post-JTM45 Marshalls with EL34s (many wouldn't consider these 'classic' clean amps, but plenty of records feature these kinds of sounds)
-Polytone amps: known for jazz clean tone.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

Even the most crystalline of tube guitar amp tones isn't really 'clean' in the technical sense. There is distortion happening even at the cleanest settings, it's just that most of us 'hear' this as 'warmth'.

Generally, when people think 'fender clean' they think blackface, but for me, there are three broad flavours of fender clean: tweed (fattest), blonde-brown (in-between) and blackface (brightest).

You can break it down even further than that, as this demonstration shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4xbAcNx-WI

-but for practical purposes, I think of tweed/brown-blonde/black. It's also worth taking into account the tonal differnces between 6V6 and 6L6 models, too.

Other classic clean tones:

-Vox AC30, and it's many descendants, incl. Matchless
-Roland JC120
-Marshall JTM45 (think re-speakered tweed bassman)
-post-JTM45 Marshalls with EL34s (many wouldn't consider these 'classic' clean amps, but plenty of records feature these kinds of sounds)
-Polytone amps: known for jazz clean tone.

interesting. That opened up a whole new area for me.
I had not considered tweed as "clean" in any respect, becuase to my knowledge, they just start beraking up at such low volume.Likewise for the JTM_45. Maybe a tweed twin or something? Ahhh ..tweed twin, what a magnificent amp!

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

interesting. That opened up a whole new area for me.
I had not considered tweed as "clean" in any respect, becuase to my knowledge, they just start beraking up at such low volume. Maybe a tweed twin or something? Ahhh ..tweed twin, what a magnifiecnt amp!

haha, all amps are clean at some point on the dial. But yeah, tweeds often rule themselves out due to lack of headroom. that's a modern thing due to the higher volumes we play at these days. Old fenders, marshalls and voxes were all designed to be clean amps, and many under-40w models were designed to be multi-input pa amplifier. that seems hilarious when you plug int a blonde bandmaster these days, but it's true.

The tweed twin is an amazing amp, and REEALLLY different to it's late 60's equivalent. Very cool.

Out of the fender flavours, I love the transitional amps the best: decent headroom, but thicker sounding than the blackface amps. I really want to get a Headstrong verbovibe (brown vibroverb clone). Generally I steer clear of blackface/silverface, with the exception of when I use a thick sounding humbucker guitar.

 

[pinto79]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

to me a great clean has to have a nice thick chorus (But not overpowering) and a smattering of digital reverb, I can't stomach spring reverb anymore. Possibly some tasty delay.

My benchmark for clean is the opening arpegiated chords in Guns N' Roses' version of Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

Whatever the definition of "cleans", these get the great ones...

this gets good ones...most people don't like the SF Fenders cause they're TOO clean

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

Whatever the definition of "cleans", these get the great ones...

this gets good ones...most people don't like the SF Fenders cause they're TOO clean

hahaha, that cabinet really "sucks"(or is that "hoover"??)!!
Be honest i couldnt get behing Musicman gera. That solid Stae pre just was a bit sterile for my taste.On the other hand, if it had some kind of Pre-amp in, I could dig to bypass that SS gainstage and run something like my Peavey Rockmaster into that slut.

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

I had a chance to buy one of those 2x12" Music Man amps, and it was a very good deal, but I just decided it'd be too heavy. Might have been a mistake though, that sucker DID sound good. It was pumping something like 130 watts if I remember correctly.

Ah well, I'm happy with my 50 watt Traynor head and Marshall 2x12".

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

hahaha, that cabinet really "sucks"(or is that "hoover"??)!!

I've actually had guys come up to me after a gig and say "I didn't know Electrolux made cabs!!":banghead:

 

[wahwah]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

I would have to disagree with the poster who suggested that "clean" is defined by a lack of effects. I would suggest that clean refers to an absence of overdrive or obvious distortion, and that a lack of effects would be more accurately described as "dry." Therefore, you can have a clean signal which is bathed in phaser, chorus, reverb or delay, and still be clean. As for what constitutes a "good" clean sound, that is totally subjective. Some will site the Roland JC-120 as the ultimate clean sound, whereas I can't stand 'em, along with just about every other solid state front end amp I've ever heard! But that hasn't stopped others getting great clean sounds from them. My personal preference is for a warmer, richer clean tone than a solid state preamp can produce, or for that matter anything that a current production preamp tube can produce, which is why I tend towards the old black plate RCA 12AX7's in the preamp of an amp that is intended to run at low gain to produce a quality clean tone. Having the high headroom and low inherent distortion that these tubes naturally produce is a great starting point for what I would call a 'good' clean tone, again, this is only IMO. It doesn't come as a surprise that these were the tubes that came standard with tweed and blonde Fenders, and ceased to be produced from the black face era on. By the time the silver face Fenders were produced, the US tube industry was in rapid decline, and inferior tubes were being sourced from a wide variety of manufacturers. The relative nastiness of silver face Fenders was largely due to this rapid decline in quality of preamp tube and other components, along with fundamental changes in circuit design.





Cheers......................................wahwah

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

I believe my 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb has RCA black plate preamp tubes.. is this possible? If not I guess they are some other type of RCAs. The power tubes are also RCA.

My DR doesn't have near the clean tone of my Jazz Chorus, but maybe that's because it's a small 6V6 amp. I do have to say with a Fender guitar it kicks ass though!

 

[wahwah]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

I believe my 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb has RCA black plate preamp tubes.. is this possible? If not I guess they are some other type of RCAs. The power tubes are also RCA.

My DR doesn't have near the clean tone of my Jazz Chorus, but maybe that's because it's a small 6V6 amp. I do have to say with a Fender guitar it kicks ass though!

It's possible, but if so, they would be unlikely to be the original tubes. RCA stopped making black plate 12AX7's in 1960. They made long gray plate versions for about a year before changing to the short gray plates, which are 12AX7/A's. The most obvious feature is the change from white lettering on the black plates to red or orange lettering on the gray plates. The same goes for their 6V6's. The tonal difference is substantial.



Cheers.................................wahwah

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

I'll have to take a look when I'm at home. Seems to me the lettering is red/orange/whatever.

So you don't like current production preamp tubes at all?

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Just What are "Cleans" and which amps get them

How about mullard, phillips holland ,and telefunken 12AX7 preamp tubes Wah-Wah, if your still out there ?