jake_xms3_punk
New member
I really dislike these vintage Kluson tuners on my 60's tribute LP. Are there any good grover or grover type replacements available as a straight drop in? I really don't want to enlarge the holes if I don't have to.
Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
- Thread starter jake_xms3_punk
- Start date
jake_xms3_punk
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
I'm not sure to be honest, this is the exact model of mine.
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Ele...USA/Les-Paul-Studio-60s-Tribute/Hardware.aspx
I'm not sure to be honest, this is the exact model of mine.
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Ele...USA/Les-Paul-Studio-60s-Tribute/Hardware.aspx
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Does the headstock look like this with the hex nuts around the tuning posts?
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Yeah, that's what his look like.
Jake, what is it that you don't like about the Kluson tuners? And what is it that you specifically like about the Grovers?
Have you tried the D'Addario Planet Waves locking tuners? By far my favorite, and very reasonably priced. I've tried lots of Grovers (including their locking tuners) which used to be my favorites, until I started using the Planet Waves.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...er-side?rNtt=planet waves tuning keys&index=1
Does the headstock look like this with the hex nuts around the tuning posts?
Yeah, that's what his look like.
Jake, what is it that you don't like about the Kluson tuners? And what is it that you specifically like about the Grovers?
Have you tried the D'Addario Planet Waves locking tuners? By far my favorite, and very reasonably priced. I've tried lots of Grovers (including their locking tuners) which used to be my favorites, until I started using the Planet Waves.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...er-side?rNtt=planet waves tuning keys&index=1
jake_xms3_punk
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
The klusons are loose and feel flimsy, the G string tuner is so loose I can practically flick it and it will turn, they bend easily too. I like the solidness of the grovers as I can be a bit heavy handed when tuning in a rush. Also I can tighten the buttons so they feel how I like them.
The klusons are loose and feel flimsy, the G string tuner is so loose I can practically flick it and it will turn, they bend easily too. I like the solidness of the grovers as I can be a bit heavy handed when tuning in a rush. Also I can tighten the buttons so they feel how I like them.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Grovers should go right on without any reaming or anything. However, you'll have holes from the old tuners visible.
Weird... Even proper good Kluson styles (not those hybrids you have) tend to have a more solid feel. Unfortunately, unlike most sealed tuners, there's no screw on the button shaft that you can tighten (VERY CAREFULLY or you strip the gear inside) to firm up the feel.
Grovers should go right on without any reaming or anything. However, you'll have holes from the old tuners visible.
allbutromeo
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Genuine Wilkinson Grover style tuners $28.
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Full-Size-Wilkinson-Grover-Style-Chrome-3x3-Tuners_p_4400.html
Genuine Wilkinson Grover style tuners $28.
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Full-Size-Wilkinson-Grover-Style-Chrome-3x3-Tuners_p_4400.html
jake_xms3_punk
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Thanks for the replies guys. I've used those wilkinsons on tele type guitars, might be worth trying on the LP. Do my klusons use a 10mm hole? I thought they used a smaller hole compared to grovers etc ?
Thanks for the replies guys. I've used those wilkinsons on tele type guitars, might be worth trying on the LP. Do my klusons use a 10mm hole? I thought they used a smaller hole compared to grovers etc ?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Modern Grovers are not very good, certainly nothing like the original Grovers that built their reputation in the 1970s. I still have some originals on my Tele, and they are great. Modern ones i have used ... no where near as good as the originals, even my 35-y-o ones.
Schallers are still as good as they originally were. When I built my LP-based instrument (there's a build thread in 'The Vault') i wanted Schallers, but with keystone buttons, just like they used to supply for Gibson years ago. But Schaller don't sell tuners with keystone buttons, although they do sell the keystones separately. So i had to buy the tuners with the traditional Schaller buttons, and the keystone buttons separately. That got expensive, but that was the end result i wanted.
Of course if you're not concerned about what type of tuner buttons you have, things are much simpler. Definitely use Schaller in preference to Grover though if you want a quality machine head.
Modern Grovers are not very good, certainly nothing like the original Grovers that built their reputation in the 1970s. I still have some originals on my Tele, and they are great. Modern ones i have used ... no where near as good as the originals, even my 35-y-o ones.
Schallers are still as good as they originally were. When I built my LP-based instrument (there's a build thread in 'The Vault') i wanted Schallers, but with keystone buttons, just like they used to supply for Gibson years ago. But Schaller don't sell tuners with keystone buttons, although they do sell the keystones separately. So i had to buy the tuners with the traditional Schaller buttons, and the keystone buttons separately. That got expensive, but that was the end result i wanted.
Of course if you're not concerned about what type of tuner buttons you have, things are much simpler. Definitely use Schaller in preference to Grover though if you want a quality machine head.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
I mean, I guess you could get regular Klusons (I happen to be fond of the Gotoh-made Kluson-type tuners myself) and then install some adapter bushings (for the bigger hole in the headstock). That way you won't have any extra holes anywhere.
Normal Klusons, yes, but normal Klusons don't have that threaded hex nut sleeve on the post end either. They just have a press fit bushing for the headstock. Those are basically a modern sealed-type tuner made to look like a Kluson.
I mean, I guess you could get regular Klusons (I happen to be fond of the Gotoh-made Kluson-type tuners myself) and then install some adapter bushings (for the bigger hole in the headstock). That way you won't have any extra holes anywhere.
jake_xms3_punk
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Crusty, I was following that build thread as it was happening with great interest! I've never used schaller machine heads.
Gilmour, that's a good idea, no extra mounting holes would be ideal but would they be a great improvment over the ones already on there?
Crusty, I was following that build thread as it was happening with great interest! I've never used schaller machine heads.
Gilmour, that's a good idea, no extra mounting holes would be ideal but would they be a great improvment over the ones already on there?
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Depends on how wiggly your current tuners are. I've always felt the Gotohs were very solid. I have the 6-in-line version on a few guitars and I used to have an Epi LP with the 3+3 set that I liked.
allbutromeo
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
I put a set of Wilkinson EZ-Lok tunerds on my 08 Studio and they fit fine. I think the older LPs used smaller holes until mid 80s maybe?
I put a set of Wilkinson EZ-Lok tunerds on my 08 Studio and they fit fine. I think the older LPs used smaller holes until mid 80s maybe?
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Older LPs with what looked like Klusons used proper Klusons, which require a smaller hole in the peghead. At some point somebody decided that they wanted a modern tuner that looked like a Kluson, but mount like a modern sealed tuner. Not as hairbrained as the Firebird X, but hairbrained nonetheless.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
You should look at a Stewart-McDonald catalog. They have all the relevant tuner dimensions graphed out.
I'm not sure who makes the keystone tuners that Gibson uses, but there are several companies that do this style. If you want to go with a Grover/Schaller/Sperzel sealed tuner, you will have to enlarge the post holes and fill the screw holes, but this isn't a big deal. It should be done by a professional, though.
My '59 Reissue Paul was molested by a previous owner who did a horrible job replacing the keystones with Sperzel lockers. I've restored the guitar back to "stock" with Gibson Historic tuners, using over-size bushings. Looks much better now, and the neck resonates better with the lighter tuners. I love the Sperzel tuners and have them on many of my G&Ls; they are superb in feel and constructionn but they didn't belong on that guitar.
Good luck!
Bill
You should look at a Stewart-McDonald catalog. They have all the relevant tuner dimensions graphed out.
I'm not sure who makes the keystone tuners that Gibson uses, but there are several companies that do this style. If you want to go with a Grover/Schaller/Sperzel sealed tuner, you will have to enlarge the post holes and fill the screw holes, but this isn't a big deal. It should be done by a professional, though.
My '59 Reissue Paul was molested by a previous owner who did a horrible job replacing the keystones with Sperzel lockers. I've restored the guitar back to "stock" with Gibson Historic tuners, using over-size bushings. Looks much better now, and the neck resonates better with the lighter tuners. I love the Sperzel tuners and have them on many of my G&Ls; they are superb in feel and constructionn but they didn't belong on that guitar.
Good luck!
Bill
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
OK... Because people in this thread keep thinking these are proper Kluson style tuners on Jake's guitar, I'm going to post a picture.
The tuner on this guitar is the one on the left while a normal Kluson is on the right.
It uses a larger hole in the headstock like modern Grover and Schaller sealed body tuners.
No hole enlargement is needed to swap straight over to a modern tuner.
A classic Kluson will use the same mounting holes and cover up any impression left in the finish, but will require an adapter bushing since the shaft is thinner than that of the tuner currently on the guitar.
OK... Because people in this thread keep thinking these are proper Kluson style tuners on Jake's guitar, I'm going to post a picture.
The tuner on this guitar is the one on the left while a normal Kluson is on the right.
It uses a larger hole in the headstock like modern Grover and Schaller sealed body tuners.
No hole enlargement is needed to swap straight over to a modern tuner.
A classic Kluson will use the same mounting holes and cover up any impression left in the finish, but will require an adapter bushing since the shaft is thinner than that of the tuner currently on the guitar.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Thanks for posting these pics. If a modern sealed tuner will fit, then that's the way to go.
Bill
Thanks for posting these pics. If a modern sealed tuner will fit, then that's the way to go.
Bill
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
Thanks for posting these pics. If a modern sealed tuner will fit, then that's the way to go.
Bill
Thanks for posting these pics. If a modern sealed tuner will fit, then that's the way to go.
Bill
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Kluson replacements on Gibson LP
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Yeah, the only problem is the exposed mounting holes from the original tuners, which is why I suggested going with good Kluson types and an adapter bushing.
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