Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

[Emopunk]

I have this issue in the title. I am going crazy trying to read about it on the web since according to someone it's normal, according to others it's a grounding problem. What am I supposed to do? Accept it like this or start to investigate with a meter/tester?
I'm sure someone here has the knowledge to drive me further, thanks.

 

[Securb]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Sounds like your bridge isn't grounded. Look for a wire coming into the wiring cavity from the direction of the bridge. Make sure it is connected to the back of a pot.

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Sounds like your bridge isn't grounded. Look for a wire coming into the wiring cavity from the direction of the bridge. Make sure it is connected to the back of a pot.

Yes I have it connected to the back of the volume pot in the control cavity. It's a solid, non shielded wire.

 

[Securb]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

The wire should be solid. Connect a piece of wire from the bridge to the ground on a pot or the input jack. If the buzzing goes away you have a break in the ground between the bridge and the control cavity. There is a level of skill in fixing this. Depending on your skill level you might want to take it to a tech.

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

The wire should be solid. Connect a piece of wire from the bridge to the ground on a pot or the input jack. If the buzzing goes away you have a break in the ground between the bridge and the control cavity. There is a level of skill in fixing this. Depending on your skill level you might want to take it to a tech.

I will do such test ASAP and let you people know what I get. In the meanwhile, thanks.. ;-)

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

The wire should be solid. Connect a piece of wire from the bridge to the ground on a pot or the input jack. If the buzzing goes away you have a break in the ground between the bridge and the control cavity. There is a level of skill in fixing this. Depending on your skill level you might want to take it to a tech.

A little update. I tried to connect a wire from the bridge to the output jack, and the noise goes away. I also have a tester in my hands, and I think I see a discontinuity between the bridge ground wire and the pot where it's soldered. I may wanto to redo this solder as a first try, do you agree?

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Do you have a perimeter ground on all of your pots?
Each pot grounded to the other then solder the bridge wire to one pot. Everything is grounded that way..

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Do you have a perimeter ground on all of your pots?
Each pot grounded to the other then solder the bridge wire to one pot. Everything is grounded that way..

Yes, the circuit looks like what you described. I could post a picture eventually. Real problem is I just realized the tester they gave to me has no continuity test. What I thought was one is actually a diode testing function. I will have to fetch a proper one in order to describe better the issue. Sigh.

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Ok.. So I think I am understanding something more. The buzz goes away even when I touch the metal chassis of the output jack connected to my amplifier. Does it mean my house has a poor grounding circuit?

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Do me a favor if possible. Plug your amp into a different outlet and see if the problem follows.
I am in the states and our current flows at 60 cycles and I read you're in Italy so you flow at 50 cycles or Hertz however you view it.
I am still thinking it is ground/RF noise.. At 50 or 60 cycles it doesn't matter it's still annoying lol!
Try that if you can.. You may just have a bad bond on an outlet but I want to go from the source power and eliminate that first then if it doesn't fix it we can start looking for cold solder joints..

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Do me a favor if possible. Plug your amp into a different outlet and see if the problem follows.
I am in the states and our current flows at 60 cycles and I read you're in Italy so you flow at 50 cycles or Hertz however you view it.
I am still thinking it is ground/RF noise.. At 50 or 60 cycles it doesn't matter it's still annoying lol!
Try that if you can.. You may just have a bad bond on an outlet but I want to go from the source power and eliminate that first then if it doesn't fix it we can start looking for cold solder joints..

Hi! I tried it in a different plug in my house, and the issue remains. I also have the same situation when I go to the rehearsal room, or when I was at a nearby tech's lab (funny thing is, he was telling me that it's normal and that his own guitar behaves the same..). So do you think we should look for cold solder joints? How do we do that? I have a multimeter here at home, as I said. Thanks for all the help that you're offering!

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

I use something like a plastic ink pen and go over them looking for noise and that sometimes works just by r touching the joint kinda poke and prod and see if it crackles..
Personally, I would pull the cover off and look at the joints under a magnifying glass and re solder everyone of them that looks suspicious.
It won't hurt to go over them again, basically cold joints form over time due to vibration and poorly melted solder.
Use a 40 watt iron and just kinda go over everything.
At this point I am fairly convinced that a cold solder is causing a ground issue..
That's basically all that is left..

No problem! Anything I can do to help. I am far from a genius but I'll try my best to help you out..

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

I use something like a plastic ink pen and go over them looking for noise and that sometimes works just by r touching the joint kinda poke and prod and see if it crackles..
Personally, I would pull the cover off and look at the joints under a magnifying glass and re solder everyone of them that looks suspicious.
It won't hurt to go over them again, basically cold joints form over time due to vibration and poorly melted solder.
Use a 40 watt iron and just kinda go over everything.
At this point I am fairly convinced that a cold solder is causing a ground issue..
That's basically all that is left..

No problem! Anything I can do to help. I am far from a genius but I'll try my best to help you out..

Hi, as you said I redid most of the solder joints in my guitar and they now look better and shiny (I could post a picture eventually). I still have the same noise with heavy distortion and when not touching the strings but then I bumped into this article: should I just leave it like that and accept the way it works? The tester gives 0 resistace between the strings and output jack's ground, just to point.
Thanks for your ideas and suggestions.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

If the hum/buzz goes away when you touch the strings or any other metal part, your guitar works just fine. I had this conversation so often I wrote this article about it: http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/background-noise-closing-the-loop

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

If the hum/buzz goes away when you touch the strings or any other metal part, your guitar works just fine. I had this conversation so often I wrote this article about it: http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/background-noise-closing-the-loop

Wow! That's some serious writing! Thanks for sharing! I also realized that my luthier painted the inside of the cavity with conductive paint, so my pots are connected both via the paint that via the wire I run between them. Could this be increasing the noise I get and I should therefore remove the wire connecting them at the back? I may post a picture if needed, thanks again!

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Are you running a noise gate in the loop?
I run several guitars with humbuckers including two Les Pauls.
I don't have any hum on my EVH and that amp is notoriously noisy on high gain.
Without my gate it has a little noise on the high gain Red Channel but nothing serious.
With my gate barely on it's quiet as a church mouse.
I read the article and understand the whole RF thing but This just doesn't make sense to me, it shouldn't be that buzzy. I've owned many tube amps and have never had those issues but I always use a gate too.
If you haven't tried that, I'd try a noise gate next.

 

[Emopunk]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Are you running a noise gate in the loop?
I run several guitars with humbuckers including two Les Pauls.
I don't have any hum on my EVH and that amp is notoriously noisy on high gain.
Without my gate it has a little noise on the high gain Red Channel but nothing serious.
With my gate barely on it's quiet as a church mouse.
I read the article and understand the whole RF thing but This just doesn't make sense to me, it shouldn't be that buzzy. I've owned many tube amps and have never had those issues but I always use a gate too.
If you haven't tried that, I'd try a noise gate next.

No I don't have a noise gate at the moment. I may consider buying a NS-2 in the future, I read good things about it.. Which pedal gate are you using by the way?
@orpheo Did you read my question two posts above? Thanks.

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

No I don't have a noise gate at the moment. I may consider buying a NS-2 in the future, I read good things about it.. Which pedal gate are you using by the way?
@orpheo Did you read my question two posts above? Thanks.

I have never used conductive paint so I don't know about that.
I love the NS2, I had one for years. I am currently using Zoom gate that is in a G2nu I have in the loop.
The ISP Decimator is also good but the Boss NS2 is my favorite. It has its own effects loop, that was a selling point for me. I could plug my pedal board into the front of any amp and play noise free.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Les Paul buzz (with distortion) when not touching strings/metal

Wow! That's some serious writing! Thanks for sharing! I also realized that my luthier painted the inside of the cavity with conductive paint, so my pots are connected both via the paint that via the wire I run between them. Could this be increasing the noise I get and I should therefore remove the wire connecting them at the back? I may post a picture if needed, thanks again!

Hey, I just got back to the forum, so I'm only reading your question right now.

The wire MAY cause a ground loop, which MAY cause extra hum. You can remove it and see what happens, cause if it doesn't work, you can easily install the wire back.

An overdrive/distortion channel will always add more buzz than the cleans, dunno why (I build guitars, not amps, sorry ) . I do know that, if the buzz goes away when you touch strings, bridge/tailpiece and/or the output jack (plate) and then the hum/buzz goes away, the guitar is ground properly. After all, YOU are the source of the noise, and you yourself has to be ground: you're shorting out yourself as an antenna.