Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

[Agent51]

First post, but been a "lurker" for awhile now. I finally decided to take the plunge and do a build. I'm going with either the Saga or Bulldog LP kit (any feedback on either would also be appreciated), with the intention to definately upgrade the pickups, and probably most of the hardware if the budget allows. I mainly want the kit just for the neck and body, as I don't have the equipment (or probably skill haha) to build those from scratch. Anyway, on to the topic:

I play a mix of punk rock (like Pennywise, Bad Religion, Rise Against, NoFx, OLD Green Day and Offspring, etc) and classic/80s rock (Stones, Led Zep, Hendrix, AC/DC, Motley Crue, Guns N Roses, etc), and also like just jamming/improving on bluesy tracks to keep up the creativity and such. My intention is to use this project as my main live guitar, so it will mainly be used for original punk rock songs and "punk style" covers of classic/80s stuff. If anyone has ever heard what "Me First and the Gimme Gimmes" do, thats kind of how our covers go, we take the songs and speed them up, make them a little more aggressive, but also preserve the riffs/solos that made them famous. In other words we aren't just a Ramones-esq "3 power chord punk" (I love the Ramones BTW, one of my influences, just saying we have riffs and solos too, and 99.7% of their songs didnt haha).

I'm looking for a tone that can best be described as "Green Day meets Appetite for Destruction". By that I mean you take Green Day's guitar tone as the rhythm (MUSIC itself aside, im just talking strictly guitar sound here) and blend it with Slash's AFD tone for leads. Green Day has such a "clean" distortion sound, you can still pick out the individual chord and note characteristics, they aren't just jumbled together in distortion. Currently I own and Epi Les Paul and an Ibanez RG. I'm looking to have my project LP turn out as sort of a hybrid of the 2. I love the tone and pretty much everything about the Epi LP (I believe it has 2 Alinco Classic HBs in it, whatever the stock PuPs are on an Epi LP standard plus top) but the one problem I have with it is it lacks a low end punch for those really pronounced palm mutes that are pretty much a staple in punk rock. Palm muting just sound kinda weak on it. Not terrible, just not where I want it. The RG (an RG-370DX if that helps, not sure what Pups are in it, but they're stock) however just sounds NASTY (in a good way) for palm mutes, its that "chug-a-chug-a" sound you expect, and you can practically feel em moving the air around you. But the RG is too "crunchy/spikey" for my liking if that makes any sense. It sounds more distorted and overdriven, and overdriven is the clean distortion sound I like, actual distortion distortion is too much for me.

I have been researching a bunch lately and I was in Guitar Center and the guy instantly recommended an SD Invader in the bridge, and since I will be soloing too, an SD JB in the neck. He seemed pretty confident about it after I described the sound I wanted, so I went home fairly happy that my search may have not taken as long as I thought. However, I started looking up YouTube videos of them being demoed, and they are not what I want at all. WAY to "metal" sounding for me. They sound friggin great, FOR METAL, but for the tone I'm looking for they're too "hot" for me.

Then I saw videos on the Slash SDs and it's ALMOST spot on to what I'm looking for. In fact I'm pretty much sold on sticking one of them in the neck. But my issue is, I can't find any sound clips or videos of them being played with palm muting, to see if they have the "punch" I need in the low end. And Guitar Center didnt have any Slash LPs in stock, which is the only guitar I know that has them in it (stock anyway) for me to test out. Has anyone tried them, do palm mutes have that deep chug to them or are they still lacking power like the Alinco Classics in my current LP? If the Slash SD isn't good for that in the bridge, can anyone reccomend one that is? I basically want the sound of Slash SDs but with a strong kick for mutes. I don't want a bottom heavy PuP though because then the bass tends to overpower stuff and it sounds funny or muddy or washed out or too distorted. I'm not TOO worried about the clean tones because this will be my live guitar and I don't really use the clean channel at all live, and if I do I have other guitars for it.

I GREATLY apologize for the length of this post, I know long posts are an "internet no-no" haha, but I'm REALLY trying to find a set of PuPs that give me the sound I'm looking for. And I know a lot is the amp and such too, I'm not gonna find my magic tone JUST from PuPs, but I have the amp end squared away, I've ALMOST got it nailed now with that Epi LP, I just need more low end kick.

Thanks in advance for reading my novel, and for any help/suggestions anyone can provide.

TL;DR
I'm looking for PuPs for a LP build. I love the Slash SDs sound/tone, but I need to know if they have a good low-end because I play a lot of punk rock and I need that "chug" from my palm mutes. If Slash SDs don't have that chug ability then I'm looking for suggestions on what to stick in the bridge that sounds close to that sound but with a strong punch for mutes, but not real "bassy" to sound muddy or distorted or washed out.

 

[jake_xms3_punk]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

hmm maybe a Custom 5 or Custom Custom in the bridge, and a aph2 in the neck?

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

demon.

 

[J. Burns]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

Custom or Custom 5. Lots of output and chug, but without sounding "metal." It's just a really angry classic rock sound, perfect for hard rock and punk. I've used a couple of these extensively over the years.

DiMarzio Super Distortion might also be up your alley.

 

[timhatimay]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

I agree with screamin demon! Its got a almost paf type vibe and classic sound but is just a bit more output. Its got nice open and clear sound that is not too compressed either, but if you really hit it then it gets a nice growly type of drive. Its extremely articulate and has great note definition with distortion or clean. Its got chugg and tight bass as well. My only disclaimer is that I have it in Basswood, and I've never tried the demon or the slash's in a LP type guitar, so the result could be quite different. It hits most of your items on the must-have list however, and its a really great PU. Some of the George Lynch signature models have that PU so maybe you can find one at the store to try.

Tim

Edit: I have the Invader in a strat, and while it can do punk/metal well, it is not the tone and sound you're looking for. JB probably could do it, but not the paf-ish tone of the SD, and just not as good IMO.

 

[Despair]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

I don't think the A2 Pro or Slash would do what you want for palm mutes, they have neither the output (though you can usually work around that to a degree with amp/pedals) nor the tight but present bass that is desirable for chunky riffs and palm mutes.

Might look at a Full Shred in the bridge, for an articulate roar that palm mutes well. Extremely tight and articulate thanks to the all hex polepiece design.

The Screamin' Demon might work if you want a growly but not bassy PAFish bridge tone.

If you want a smooth but not dark neck pickup, the A2P or Slash neck may be perfect.

 

[Condemned soul]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

+3 for the screamin demon.
I tried mine in a LP Custom. Great. Solid bass. As said above, this pup is very articulate. Responds well to picking dymanics.
Moved her to an older Gibson Explorer with a Jazz bridge pickup in the neck. This combination is staying in the explorer.

Disclaimer: Many others on the board can do a better job of describing a pickup's characteristics than I. I used trial and error and a good salesman to match stuff up.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

Re: the internet clips:
You're going to find a lot of Metal players who demo the Invader as a Metal pickup, so their tones are tailored around that sound. However, with some learned adjustment of the amp's settings, you can make it do whatever you want, as with any pickup.

The end result is what you're going for, regardless of what any pickup brings in, so the entire signal path has to be taken into consideration. Amp EQ, gain settings, etc.


The Epi LP and the RG have two different bridges (I'm assuming the RG has a locking trem?), as well as two different scale lengths. These both contribute to the final tone of the guitar itself. Even if the RG has a Fender-style hardtail and non-locking nut, it's still a significantly different design as to affect the tone differently than a stopbar/TOM setup. It's going to be brighter regardless.

Given the fact the kit you want to build is LP style, I'm assuming it's 24 3/4" scale with a stopbar and tuneomatic setup, so it's going to have similar tonal characterisitcs to the Epi LP e.g. it won't have the tighter punch of the Strat-scale RG.

Another point to consider is that the recorded tones you hear are generally not what was coming out of the one guitar and one amp. It's been post-processed and double-layered to accentuate the positive, so to speak.

While I'm not all that familiar with Green Day's guitar tone, what I have heard in passing on the radio seems to indicate he's doing it "the old fashioned way", which means using his pick attack to influence the level of overdrive: Pick harder to push the amp, pick softer to keep it under control. I'm sure he's got a pedal in there somewhere as well, as many players do these days.

 

[lazyfinger]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

I think he might've had JB in Fernandes start in the old days.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

A Custom in the bidge of an LP nails the Brett Gurewitz tone.

 

[mwalluk]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

Screamin Demon (b) and Pearly Gates . DONE!

 

[Agent51]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

A Custom in the bidge of an LP nails the Brett Gurewitz tone.

YES! Bad Religion is in my 2nd favorite band, love their guitar tone also, I just figured WAY more people have heard Green Day so it was a lot easier to name them, but that sound is exactly what I like, distorted but still really "clean".

I looked up demos of the screamin demon and the custom 5 and they both sound real good, a lot like the Slash signatures (especially the Custom from what I heard), but I still can't find demos of palm muting, and that's the key to the bridge pickup selection. The Slash's, Screamin Demons, Customs, and hell even the Alinco Classics currently on my Epi LP all sound like I want them to, I just need them to have a good kick for mutes and then thats basically exactly what I want. I also looked up Billie Joe's (Green Day's singer/guitarist) signature LP Junior model and it lists the PuP as an "H-90", which is apparently a double P-90 but NOT noise cancelling like a true humbucker? They aren't available outside of that signature guitar though.

For the record, I'm not trying to sound like Green Day, Slash, whomever, I'm just listing these as examples of what I want to base the characteristics of my sound off of. I know "tone" has a lot to do with other components besides the PuPs, be it amps, effects, guitar shapes/woods, and even playing style. I could play Billi Joe's or Slash's actual rig and not sound like them. I just want that really nice clean distortion with a punchy, tight low end and a good lead tone but not too "spiky" or "hot" like a lot of metal tones.

And I greatly appreciate all the suggestions so far, as of right now I'm leaning towards a Slash in the neck and a Custo
In the bridge, I just need to demo a guitar with Customs in it to see if it will suit my "chugging palm mute" needs.

I'm wondering if I'm lookin for more of a mid-tone punch for the mutes though, because that can still be "punchy" but not really low and heavy and distorted like a really boosted low end can sound? Sorry if I'm not describing things correctly, this aspect of guitar playing is fairly new to me, the "inner workings" and characteristics of different PuPs and such. Up until a year or so ago I just picked up a guitar and played. The past year I've been really into shaping my own tone and getting into learning about what things I can do to do that.

 

[gilaltom3]

Re: Les Paul Project, Searching For PuPs For A Certain Sound (WARNING: Lengthy Read)

I have a Les Paul traditional standard with stock pups running through an Orange Dual Terror and I play punk type music. The bridge pick up is a 57 classic plus and it is pretty punchy on palm mutes but not too muddy when played open.