Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

[anis_45]

Hi! I've got a Gibson LP Studio from mid 90's, I believe it's with a 490 and a 498T. I'd like to find a bluesier more mellow tone a la Greeny etc. and have been thinking of replacing the bridge pu. I'd like to have a bright but not too driven tone, I've got a class-a tube amp that I overdrive just by raising the volume so it's a pretty basic approach in that sense. Still I'm looking for a blues sound not jazz so distorsion as such is not a bad thing. At the moment I'm consideiring either
a)a Seth Lover or
b)a 59,
the latter being a bit cheaper. I was only thinking of changing the bridge pu at this stage - how do you think they would work with 490 neck pu? I could'n find any specs on 490 so I don't know how it measures up technically in comparision to Seth or 59.

And question 2: I'd also like to try the Peter Green out-of-phase thing but am quite amateurish with welding and stuff. Is reversing the magnet manageable just by myself or do I need to take it to the shop? I read some earlier postings and understood that I should reverse the neck pu. I took the pu out but it was covered by a plate from below and the bottom plate was welded from 2 points. Do i need to take it off? And then what? Do I also need to take off the top cover because i read somewhere that it would be difficult to get it back on? Are there major risks involved? I think I should be able to manage switching the bridge pu but reversing the magnet seems tricky.. Does anyone have links to pics on this operation cause I couldn't find any?

Many thanks, all help appreciated!

 

[saladin]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

I've found that Gibson's '57 Callics can nail that old school tone the best.

 

[saladin]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

I've found that Gibson's '57 Classics can nail that old school tone the best. Try the "plus" version in the bridge, as much as I love SD JB pickups for a Les Paul the '57's sound the best too me.

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Go with an Antiquity. It's the closest to what Peter had in his LP. If not, try the Seth of '59. The '57 Classic is ok, but it's not a close to a real PAF as the Antiquity or the other two.
If you want, listen to the clip I did on the Toneninja website, using a LP Custom with Antiquities (There's a Peter Green-style clip and a Clapton one)

Jeff

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

If you want the tone Peter got with the Paul get a Set of Seth's, if you want the sound Gary Moore gets with that guitar today, get a set of Antiquity's...or you could just order a set of Custom Shop Peter Green pups...MJ makes a set of P. Green pickups, and to be honest I know nothing about them...but the Custom Shop rules.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Those cats were way before custom pups - I would bet the Seth's or 59's would do the trick. And if you see pictures of P. Green I think you can see that the screws are at the bottom, not top. Reverse the pup should do it. But if you want more flexibility go for the push pull phase switch for the neck. MAybe not a first time solder job....

But if you have the cash and the time - I've never heard anything bad about the custom shop. But maybe overkill for a paul studio. But don't be in a hurry. Your call on that.

I'd really think off the shelf would do it, though. And as always - a big part of those dudes sonic mojo is the "touch."

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

P.S. Welcome to the Forum. I forgot to say it before.

As for the Peter Green out-of-phase tone, just take the neck pup magnet and flip it over. That way, the middle position will give you the funky tone you want. Believe me, Greenie's LP, which now belongs to Gary Moore has real PAFs in it. The closest thing you can find are Duncan Antiquities or Duncan Custom Shop Peter Green Antiquities, which have the magnet reversed for you.

The Seths and '59's are close, but not like Antiquities.

Forget the fact that Pete's neck pup has the pickup (screws) reversed, it's the magnet inside that's flipped that makes the difference, not the orientation of the pup




Jeff

 

[anis_45]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Excellent! I think I'll go with the Seth Lover bridge at this stage and see how it goes together with the 490. Have to check out the Antiques at some stage though. I'm not really looking for an exact Peter Green replica but just something similar in feel to start from.

As for the Peter Green out-of-phase tone, just take the neck pup magnet and flip it over. That way, the middle position will give you the funky tone you want. Forget the fact that Pete's neck pup has the pickup (screws) reversed, it's the magnet inside that's flipped that makes the difference, not the orientation of the pup

That's what I thought too. Is it difficult to flip the magnet over? Remember, my first time at soldering :scratchch

Thanks guys

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Turning the neck pickup around makes a big tonal change.

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

That's what I thought too. Is it difficult to flip the magnet over? Remember, my first time at soldering :scratchch

Thanks guys

It's not that hard. Loosen the screws on the bottom of the pickup, but don't take them out. Slide the magnet out and rotate it 180 degrees on the flat side, not end-over-end. Then slide it back in, tighten the screws and you're good to go.

Good luck,

Jeff

 

[Wattage]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Turning the neck pickup around makes a big tonal change.

I did it for looks but didn't find it made much of a difference tonewise. I did the PG mod with a Push-Pull pot and it works real well have to have 4 wire pups though.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Seth Lover invented the Gibson humbucker and specified an alnico 2 magnet.

At first Gibson did use alnico 2 and the Seth Lover and Antiquity and Pearly Gates are modeled after those alnico 2 pafs. They will have more mids and a warmer smoother tone than an alnico 5 paf...though the PG (and Antiquity) use unbalanced coils for a brighter, more open midrange and treble.

I do think Peter Green's Les Paul probably used alnico 2 pafs, but they could have been alnico 5. When Peter played with John Mayall and Fleetwood Mac that guitar was less than 10 years old and the Seth Lover would probably come very close to that tone...unless they were alnico 5, in which case the Duncan '59 would be closer.

Antiquitys are wound to sound like a 50 year old alnico 2 paf pickup...the way those pickups might sound today in 2005.

Gibson seems to have switched to Alnico 5 pafs by 1960 and those are what was in Eric Clapton's '60 Les Paul that he used with John Mayall. That's a brighter tone with plenty of mids but less mids than the alnico 2 version. That would be a Duncan '59.

IMO, Clapton's '60 LP had alnico 5 pafs and Clapton's '58 LP (that he recorded Fresh Cream with) had alnico 2 pafs and a warmer tone with more midrange.

As for Peter Green's LP, my favorite tone Peter got was on Supernatural on the John Mayall Hard Road album. He gets sustain that goes on forever on that cut.

I suspect that paf making that sound is an alnico 2 like the Seth or Antiquity.

Later, with Fleetwood Mac, Peter reversed the neck pickup so the polepieces faced towards the bridge. Some speculate that he also reversed the magnet or that the magnet was reversed when the pickup was manufactured. To do that with an uncovered pickup, just loosen the 4 screws on the bottem until you can slide the magnet out and turn it around and reinstall it again.

When both pickups are combined and both volumes are equal you'll get a thin, pinched, nasal tone. Out of phase. But you can adjust the two volume controls to determine just how pinched and thin the tone is.

Watch BB King play...he's adjusting his two pickups constantly to get that pinched tone or a fatter tone. His pickups are out of phase too!

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

One more thing: your Studio probably has 300K pots. You might want to replace them long shaft 500K CTS pots. If you go with alnico 2 pickups you might also want to do the 50's mods to brighten them up just a little. All you do is attach the tone cap to the middle terminal (the output) of each volume pot instead of the the usual connection which is to the input of the volume pot.

I'll often do that mod to warmer guitars with warmer pickups so when the volume or tone is turned down they don't get to warm and muddy.

IMO, all guitar tweakers should try that mod and see if they like it and keep it in the back of thier head just in case they want to brighten up a guitar with warm pickups someday.

 

[anis_45]

Re: Les Paul Studio and Peter Green

Hooray, I managed to flip the magnet over on my neck pu.. Wasn't that hard really except it was difficult to get it to move at all because of the wax. Anyway I like the sound at the moment: the tone is slightly nasal when both pickups are on 10 but especially when you lessen the volume on the neck pu (to some extent also on bridge pu but it doesn's make as big a difference) to about 6-8. I still have to change the bridge pu decided to go with the 59 since Seth Lover might be too quiet with 490 on neck position. If I get the 59 without a cover and put the cover in myself does it need waxing? Thanks for the help guys it made a difference indeed.