Les Pauls over priced?
- Thread starter skh515
- Start date
LesStrat
Reining PunLowered
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
I don't begrudge Gibson for charging what the market will bear. I do believe they could sell more if they were more competitively priced. Then again, they might sell more if they put a little more effort into producing their instruments...even at the current prices.
My problem with Gibson is simple: For what they charge, they could do a better job. I have NEVER seen a LP (in the last 7-8 years) that did not have a finish flaw. Inexcusable. Any other manufacturer would sell this stuff as "B" stock. :smack:
If Ibanez can produce $1000 guitars with flawless finishes, why can't the grandaddy of guitar builders do it?
If I ever have the money to invest in a LP, I'll most likely purchase a Heritage.
I don't begrudge Gibson for charging what the market will bear. I do believe they could sell more if they were more competitively priced. Then again, they might sell more if they put a little more effort into producing their instruments...even at the current prices.
My problem with Gibson is simple: For what they charge, they could do a better job. I have NEVER seen a LP (in the last 7-8 years) that did not have a finish flaw. Inexcusable. Any other manufacturer would sell this stuff as "B" stock. :smack:
If Ibanez can produce $1000 guitars with flawless finishes, why can't the grandaddy of guitar builders do it?
If I ever have the money to invest in a LP, I'll most likely purchase a Heritage.
MikeRocker
What's Your Forum Nameologist?
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
I'll concede the point that a Les Paul Custom is near the top of the line, unlike an American Standard Strat. However, as someone pointed out earlier, the LP Custom has always been a production model, apparently until fairly recently (I wasn't even aware that it is now considered a "Custom Shop" model). I have a hard time believing that they have changed anything about the manufacturing process, it seems to be a way to basically justify charging even more for their product. The nearest I could find to a standard Les Paul still lists at $3,098.00, still nearly two and-a-half times an American Stratocaster. I have nothing against the Les Paul, it's a fine guitar, as I mentioned I have a Gibson Les Paul Custom, and I love it. But in my opinion it is NOT worth what they are charging for it these days. Worth is certianly in the eye of the beholder, so maybe to someone else it is a good value. But for me, if I was buying my first electric again, I could get several excellent guitars for the price of one Gibson.bryvincent said:
matt99camero
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Yes they are overpriced. It's like when I found out it costs Nike $5 to make a pair of shoes and they charge $120 for some of them. WTF? It's all about being able to build something with as low a cost as possible and charge the highest price possible for the final item. It's just business. I don't think alot of the big companies are about producing quality instruments anymore, it's just how much money can they make. If they can cut down on using quality pots and save $10 per guitar they are probably going to do it. If you sell a million guitars a year that's an extra million a year. I really want a Paul faded double cut, but they are only around $700 so that dosen't seem too bad and I've heard they are pretty good guitars.
Personally, if I had the money I'd probably play all vintage stuff, I just think they got it right back then. My roommate has a 70's sunburst paul with P90's :32:
Yes they are overpriced. It's like when I found out it costs Nike $5 to make a pair of shoes and they charge $120 for some of them. WTF? It's all about being able to build something with as low a cost as possible and charge the highest price possible for the final item. It's just business. I don't think alot of the big companies are about producing quality instruments anymore, it's just how much money can they make. If they can cut down on using quality pots and save $10 per guitar they are probably going to do it. If you sell a million guitars a year that's an extra million a year. I really want a Paul faded double cut, but they are only around $700 so that dosen't seem too bad and I've heard they are pretty good guitars.
Personally, if I had the money I'd probably play all vintage stuff, I just think they got it right back then. My roommate has a 70's sunburst paul with P90's :32:
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
That's kinda ironic because until a couple years ago when those started gaining popularity, most Gibson buffs considered those 70's Norlin era Gibsons to be less desireable and of lesser quality. Recently they've shot up in value and IMO it's only because they are old enough to cling to the "vintage" label.
All the ranting I read on various forums about how poor Gibson quality I think is not really as commonplace as it's made out to seem. There may be some lemons out there like anything else, but I've owned dozens of Gibsons and have only run across one that had questionable frets (a production Iommi with fret overhang).
matt99camero said:
That's kinda ironic because until a couple years ago when those started gaining popularity, most Gibson buffs considered those 70's Norlin era Gibsons to be less desireable and of lesser quality. Recently they've shot up in value and IMO it's only because they are old enough to cling to the "vintage" label.
All the ranting I read on various forums about how poor Gibson quality I think is not really as commonplace as it's made out to seem. There may be some lemons out there like anything else, but I've owned dozens of Gibsons and have only run across one that had questionable frets (a production Iommi with fret overhang).
Shnook
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Sadly, the only Gibson Les Paul's that I've really liked have been in the $4000 and up price catagory. Way out of my league. And oddly enough, my Norlin era '74 LP Standard that I bought for $1000 plays MUCH better than any of the newer LP Standards I've played in the last 3 or so years. I haven't played one newer model that did anything for me. However, I guess they can't be overpriced IMHO if I have zero intention of buying one.
Sadly, the only Gibson Les Paul's that I've really liked have been in the $4000 and up price catagory. Way out of my league. And oddly enough, my Norlin era '74 LP Standard that I bought for $1000 plays MUCH better than any of the newer LP Standards I've played in the last 3 or so years. I haven't played one newer model that did anything for me. However, I guess they can't be overpriced IMHO if I have zero intention of buying one.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
i'll start out by saying that i agree that the gibsons are overpriced and that it seems obvious that they are charging a 'name value' premium that has nothing to do with the quality of the instruments for making music ...
that being said, anyone who has gone to school for business / management / marketing / etc. sees what they are doing as textbook ... there are essentially two ways to be massively successful in selling ...
1) low price / razor thin margin with high volume (e.g. wal mart)
2) high price / high margin + high 'prestige' / customer service factor but reduced 'exclusive' volume (e.g. Nordstrom)
... guys who try to be middle of the road (e.g. moderate costs / moderate margin / moderate volume) usually cant make it happen nearly as successfully
gibson is marketing the name as exclusive and aiming at the high end - they dont have to sell near as many if they are making several grand of pure profit on each guitar ... they'll use epi to be their low end, "gateway" guitar and try to get folks to come back in a few years when they are ready to move up to the 'real' gibsons .. i think PRS started out like this all along ... the lower priced imported SE line is right up the same alley ...
i've played heritages and really really liked 'em ... prolly one day i'll have one of their LPs and one of their 335s and maybe even one of their 137s or L5s
cheers,
t4d
i'll start out by saying that i agree that the gibsons are overpriced and that it seems obvious that they are charging a 'name value' premium that has nothing to do with the quality of the instruments for making music ...
that being said, anyone who has gone to school for business / management / marketing / etc. sees what they are doing as textbook ... there are essentially two ways to be massively successful in selling ...
1) low price / razor thin margin with high volume (e.g. wal mart)
2) high price / high margin + high 'prestige' / customer service factor but reduced 'exclusive' volume (e.g. Nordstrom)
... guys who try to be middle of the road (e.g. moderate costs / moderate margin / moderate volume) usually cant make it happen nearly as successfully
gibson is marketing the name as exclusive and aiming at the high end - they dont have to sell near as many if they are making several grand of pure profit on each guitar ... they'll use epi to be their low end, "gateway" guitar and try to get folks to come back in a few years when they are ready to move up to the 'real' gibsons .. i think PRS started out like this all along ... the lower priced imported SE line is right up the same alley ...
i've played heritages and really really liked 'em ... prolly one day i'll have one of their LPs and one of their 335s and maybe even one of their 137s or L5s
cheers,
t4d
jmv
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Yeah, ain't it the truth.
And to Benjy26... i'm sure your hamer is wonderful, but i cannot believe i'd like it better than my guitar. I played TONS of guitars when shopping for this one, and it is absolutely perfect for me. I mean, flawless. BTW, speaking of flawless... i don't have any finish flaws on my guitar. And no fret problems. Perfect action right from the store. Wonderful sound, you can tell by playing it unplugged... a wonderful ring, but still has some snap. Its sooo perfect.... for me at least.
Tweed said:I think the notion of a guitar being "overpriced" has a funny way of evaporating when you play one that says "take me, I am the one".
Yeah, ain't it the truth.
And to Benjy26... i'm sure your hamer is wonderful, but i cannot believe i'd like it better than my guitar. I played TONS of guitars when shopping for this one, and it is absolutely perfect for me. I mean, flawless. BTW, speaking of flawless... i don't have any finish flaws on my guitar. And no fret problems. Perfect action right from the store. Wonderful sound, you can tell by playing it unplugged... a wonderful ring, but still has some snap. Its sooo perfect.... for me at least.
Hellion
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Jeff Baxter cut some of his best work with Steely Dan & the Doobie Brothers (not to mention that ripping solo on Donna Summers' "Hot Stuff") with a Burns Bison and a homemade Strat. To quote the Skunk himself, "Sorry guys, it's a poor workman that blames his tools!"
Jeff Baxter cut some of his best work with Steely Dan & the Doobie Brothers (not to mention that ripping solo on Donna Summers' "Hot Stuff") with a Burns Bison and a homemade Strat. To quote the Skunk himself, "Sorry guys, it's a poor workman that blames his tools!"
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Epiphones are even more overpriced than Gibsons.
Wattage said:
Epiphones are even more overpriced than Gibsons.
orbiter
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
the one thing I really like about Heritage (aside from making great guitars) is that they have stayed away from an import line .. no MIK's or MIC's that I know of .. I like that. I was a bit bummed when G&L took up this practice .. but I guess if you are gonna run w/ the big dogs you gotta play the game.
whoever said the only thing wrong w/ a heritage is that it doesnt say gibson on the headstock was spot on.. aside from the clunky bridge/tailpiece .. but thats an easy swap.
I have been pretty disenchanted by gibby's lower line in recent years .. poor workmenship on some of those faded series IMO.. I wish they'd leave the lowend stuff to epi.
if you look around you can grab up an LP studio for $500+ ..some are really nice .. some dont sound so good .... and for $400+ there are some really nice SG specials floating around ... IMO thats a TON of bang 4 $$~>
and for around $1800 +- .. you can swoop up a '57 custom shop LP ... these things rule .. and are probably the best kept CS secret going.
I'd say those jimmy page LPs going for 16K are a touch overpriced ... but I wonder what they'll bring in 25 yrs from now.
the one thing I really like about Heritage (aside from making great guitars) is that they have stayed away from an import line .. no MIK's or MIC's that I know of .. I like that. I was a bit bummed when G&L took up this practice .. but I guess if you are gonna run w/ the big dogs you gotta play the game.
whoever said the only thing wrong w/ a heritage is that it doesnt say gibson on the headstock was spot on.. aside from the clunky bridge/tailpiece .. but thats an easy swap.
I have been pretty disenchanted by gibby's lower line in recent years .. poor workmenship on some of those faded series IMO.. I wish they'd leave the lowend stuff to epi.
if you look around you can grab up an LP studio for $500+ ..some are really nice .. some dont sound so good .... and for $400+ there are some really nice SG specials floating around ... IMO thats a TON of bang 4 $$~>
and for around $1800 +- .. you can swoop up a '57 custom shop LP ... these things rule .. and are probably the best kept CS secret going.
I'd say those jimmy page LPs going for 16K are a touch overpriced ... but I wonder what they'll bring in 25 yrs from now.
JumpMarine
18 watts of Mayhemologist
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
Lew, I think that this the best, most down to earth explaination of our society that I have ever read!Lewguitar said:
M
MrHeavyMetal
Guest
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
I have to agree that Gibson LP's have become WAY overpriced. Personally, I don't see how Gibson is staying in business but I guess they are doing ok. I don't see how the average joe player can afford a LP nowdays unless they buy used at decent prices. But I think the overpricing scheme will catch up with Gibson eventually.
I have to agree that Gibson LP's have become WAY overpriced. Personally, I don't see how Gibson is staying in business but I guess they are doing ok. I don't see how the average joe player can afford a LP nowdays unless they buy used at decent prices. But I think the overpricing scheme will catch up with Gibson eventually.
mrfjones
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
someone here mentioned time to make a gibson les paul, as apposed to time to make a fender. i have news for you, it is all programed on a cnc machine even most custom shop models. it takes very little time at all to make a gibson or a fender, unless you get one made the right way. by hand. not even the gibson custom shop does work by hand anymore. those page les pauls going for 25,000 were also made on a cnc machine.
someone here mentioned time to make a gibson les paul, as apposed to time to make a fender. i have news for you, it is all programed on a cnc machine even most custom shop models. it takes very little time at all to make a gibson or a fender, unless you get one made the right way. by hand. not even the gibson custom shop does work by hand anymore. those page les pauls going for 25,000 were also made on a cnc machine.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
CNC machine doesn't mean squat. It's more accurate than a human hand anyway and everyone uses it. Big difference is the type, amount and quality of the woods used, and the construction. Garunteed a huge chnk a mahogany, a carved maple top, and a set neck cost more (for the woods) and requires more work (setting the neck and carving the arched top) and thus costs more than a light pice of alder/ash/poplar with a bolt-on neck.mrfjones said:
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
I will say with Gibson's huge price jumps in the past couple years, and their gestapo-like sales tactics (the whole internet dealer fiasco), I think this picture is appropriate :fing25:
Heil Henry !!!!
I will say with Gibson's huge price jumps in the past couple years, and their gestapo-like sales tactics (the whole internet dealer fiasco), I think this picture is appropriate :fing25:
Heil Henry !!!!
callous_frigid_chill
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
its called saving your money
MrHeavyMetal said:
its called saving your money
callous_frigid_chill
New member
Re: Les Pauls over priced?
comparing hitler to the boss of gibson is about the worst exaggeration ever.
comparing hitler to the boss of gibson is about the worst exaggeration ever.
