lets talk el84s.

[JeffB]

Not a big fan..generally because of the circuits they are in, but my amp uses them, and it is about time for new tubes as mine are getting harsh...I have put a ton of heat on them,.and they are stock chinese not so greats.

Can anyone suggest some NEW (not expensive NOS) that are clear/open but not too woolly sounding when pushed hard? I have tried JJs previously and they are good, but a little dark.

What is everyone using?

 

[CTN]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I got a pair of Tung Sols in my TM18.

supposedly they are very articulate and punchy. They're certainly nicer than the stock chinese tubes, but I've never owned an EL84 amp before this, so my experience is somewhat limited.

 

[Surgeon]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I'Ve had Tube amp doctors in my TH30 for a good while and they are very very nice.
I've also tried the electro harmonix and like 'em too.

 

[RealtyViking]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I bounce back and forth between EH and Sovtek.

The EH sound a little better clean, but the Sovteks seem to hold up better over time and have a little more character when breaking up.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Are you sure it's the valve and not your amp or amp/speaker interaction?

 

[karpathion]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I grew very fond of JJ el84's, while I was in my lunchbox head obsession. I went through 5 amps, and ended up with jj's in all of them. They just work.

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Are you sure it's the valve and not your amp or amp/speaker interaction?

Yeah. I know they are going south, Ben.. Well, I guess it could be the amp, but no signs of amp problems. Noticed one bottle is not nearly as bright as it was a week ago, and the autobias circuit has popped on a couple times. I can hear the harsh. Amp sounds more cold and brittle. They are only 3 months old, but I have been putting 20-25 hours a week on them., and full blast on 18w lately.

I was planning on changing them anyway,.so suggestions are welcome regardless.

 

[Axl H]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I have always like the grind that Sovtek EL84s have.. Kinda bright and middy in a cool way. JJs are nice too, but they do have that slightly darker thing going on.

Btw Jeff, check your inbox

 

[playas]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I´ll echo Surgeon´s comments. I have an L5T-112 which came with all TADs stock and they sound really nice.
I have an Electro-Harmonix in there now and it sounds good too.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I have tried a few EL84 amps and own two... the Mesa EL84s are pretty good I must say and LOUD/ better headroom. The JJs break up nicely though in my Traynor but at about 3 out of 10 on the dial but that could very well just be the amps circuit and speaker config (Traynor 1x12, Mesa Lonestar Special 4x10)

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Welp, I took some JJs I had laying around andnthrew them in the amp.

The EL84s unfortunately are not well matched according to the amps circuitry ( it has a led display that shows disparity between power tubes). The amp will function fine, but obviously not optimal for tone. I figured they may not be all that well matched because one is the original from my Class5, and the other is from a matched set I bought elsewhere that had a lower "hardness" rating, as I wanted to smooth out the Class 5.

Also threw in some jj ecc83s.


JJs smoothed out the amp overall. Gain is less fizzy, and the tubes just do not have as hard of an edge at max volume....slightly more compressed.

Bass increased...but it a little more splatty..this could be the poor matchup.

Mids increased.

Top end darkened up. Not digging my rolled off cleans...

Not sure where this leaves me as to making choices. Hard to make a decision when I know the power tubes are not matched up well enough.

I think I need to reinstall the chinese pres and see what happens. See what those affect the most, and go from there.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I use Russian 6P14P's in mine and they're excellent. The Military variants (6P14P-EV) are a bit dryer sounding & have more clean headroom, but I prefer the plain 6P14P's. Fat, open, juicy, harmonically rich sounding tubes. They're fairly cheap off ebay too..

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I'm recently a fan of the Mullard RIs, but there wasn't a gigantic difference between that and the JJs I had in there previously. Maybe a little less stiff on the top end. Really, though, I think it's about the bias in the amp I'm using. Sounds like you don't get to make that adjustment yourself if it's an autobias circuit.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Welp, I took some JJs I had laying around andnthrew them in the amp.

The EL84s unfortunately are not well matched according to the amps circuitry ( it has a led display that shows disparity between power tubes). The amp will function fine, but obviously not optimal for tone. I figured they may not be all that well matched because one is the original from my Class5, and the other is from a matched set I bought elsewhere that had a lower "hardness" rating, as I wanted to smooth out the Class 5.

Also threw in some jj ecc83s.


JJs smoothed out the amp overall. Gain is less fizzy, and the tubes just do not have as hard of an edge at max volume....slightly more compressed.

Bass increased...but it a little more splatty..this could be the poor matchup.

Mids increased.

Top end darkened up. Not digging my rolled off cleans...

Not sure where this leaves me as to making choices. Hard to make a decision when I know the power tubes are not matched up well enough.

I think I need to reinstall the chinese pres and see what happens. See what those affect the most, and go from there.

This is where I'd start tube rolling the preamp until I found the combo I liked.

If it were me, I would start out with some Electro-Harmonix 12AX7s in the gain stages and in the phase inverter position. They tend to be more articulate and have nice highs in my experience.

Stay away from Mullards, because they are darker sounding tubes. They're great for a really bright amp, but if your amp is already dark, meh....

And for good measure try out some Tung-Sol and JJ 12AX7s too. I've found that in the PI position the JJs will give an amp a little more modern snarl, so to speak. I haven't tried Tung-Sols out myself, but they are on my list after I get some SED Winged C EL-34s and some GZ-34s for my Triple Rec. I've already done some tube rolling in it's preamp and currently have EH tubes in all the gain stages and JJs in the rest of the positions, including the PI. Oh and it currently has JJ 6L6s in the power amp.

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Definitely the power tubes were going bad. Over the weekend the amp kept cutting in and out. Ruled out cables, then my crappy wiring job on the guitar,.and the switch or jack.

Finally started watching the auto bias indicators and they really started going nuts...overcurrent, undercurrent..kept trying to regulate them...

Put in another set of JJs, and problem solved. Amp is a little darker/warmer, and helped tame that typical juiced 84 midrange grind (which I do not like) Still need some new pres but will probably shy awwy from JJs for fear of getting too dark

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I like JJ power tubes, but hate the short-plate pres. The ECC803S is a pretty righteous tube, though, in my experience.

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I like JJ power tubes, but hate the short-plate pres. The ECC803S is a pretty righteous tube, though, in my experience.

I had the jj ecc83s in my class 5 and they worked decently. But the chinese 12ax7Bs sound better in the TM18. With the JJ EL84s AND the jj83s' there is just too much compression, loss of presence, and high midrange spike. Sounds like I re-tubed with rubberbands

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: lets talk el84s.

I had the jj ecc83s in my class 5 and they worked decently. But the chinese 12ax7Bs sound better in the TM18. With the JJ EL84s AND the jj83s' there is just too much compression, loss of presence, and high midrange spike. Sounds like I re-tubed with rubberbands

Different tubes we're talking about here. The ECC83S is the short-plate tube, and I hate them. The long-plate is a much better sounding tube, even though it typically has a little lower gain. Everything about the ECC803S is better, in my opinion.

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Different tubes we're talking about here. The ECC83S is the short-plate tube, and I hate them. The long-plate is a much better sounding tube, even though it typically has a little lower gain. Everything about the ECC803S is better, in my opinion.

Yup. I understood you were talking about the lower gain tube as being much better. Was just relating my experience with the 83s as well.

 

[JeffB]

Re: lets talk el84s.

Forgot to mention the stock Chinese EL84s had the ValveArt logo on them, but no writing other than tube type and Made in China. Anyone familiar with the brand? I just happened to find a picture of ValveArts logo online and noticed it was the same as whar was on my tubes.

IDK if the preamps are the same brand as they have nothing written on them but 12ax7B and made in china.