*Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

beaubrummels

Well-known member
I am only finding audio taper (EP-4286-000).

Need a linear taper, long shaft, 500K, push/pull CTS pot for a Les Paul project.

Know anyone selling this?

(I'm guessing the part number would be EP-4246-000 for linear, but coming up goose eggs.)

Thank you.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

I put in linear potentiometers at Amazon
And about a dozen showed up

Be aware that someone listed a reverse taper linear potentiometer

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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Oh I totally missed the push pull requirement in the OP

My bad
Sorry

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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Leave off long shaft

Search
Linear potentiometers push pull

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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

I need long shaft - this is a Les Paul, it has to be Long Shaft, Linear Taper, 500K Push/Pull
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

The first one listed doesn't say long shaft but the image is a long shaft

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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

How many switches do you need? Maybe you could go for audio on the pots that least need to be linear taper, and use two linear taper pots without switches for the pots that most need the linear taper. For instance, use regular 500K linear volume pots, and use audio taper tone pots with push/pulls or push/pushes.

You can also hybridize some pots by switching out the guts. You could try taking a linear taper wafer out of a regular pot (same brand, same product line) and swapping it into an audio taper push/pull. However, I've never done this on a push/pull pot, so I don't know how hard it is. On a regular (not-switched) pot, it's fairly simple. I have done it many times in order to make 1M long shaft pots for Les Pauls.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

I need 4 switches. I'm doing the Jimmy Page wiring on a Les Paul. Another option I'm considering is like you said: switches on the audito taper (volume controls) leave the tones normal linear / no switches, then have two DPDT switches glued under the pickguard, which I understand is how Page originally did it.

I wanted the push/pulls all on the knobs if possible because I'm also doing my SG the same and wanted comparable interaction between the two guitars.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

I'm wondering why you want a linear pot in the first case, all Gibsons to my knowledge have audio tone pots, it's the volume pots in the production Gibsons that are linear (and most are 300k for some unknown reason), and many change those out for audio anyway. I've never seen a Gibson with a stock linear tone pot.

Al


I need 4 switches. I'm doing the Jimmy Page wiring on a Les Paul. Another option I'm considering is like you said: switches on the audito taper (volume controls) leave the tones normal linear / no switches, then have two DPDT switches glued under the pickguard, which I understand is how Page originally did it.

I wanted the push/pulls all on the knobs if possible because I'm also doing my SG the same and wanted comparable interaction between the two guitars.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Hmmm. I might go for Triple Shot pickup rings in that case. That will probably get you most of the way there (perhaps all the way; I don't know exactly what J.P. wiring is). If it doesn't finish the job for you, then you can do the rest with two audio taper push/pulls on the volume pots, while using standard pots with linear taper for the tone controls. I think the linear pots would go better on the tone controls anyhow. On volume pots, I sometimes like linear and sometimes like audio. But on tone pots, I always prefer linear taper.

You could also drill for toggle switches, or put some switches under the guard, as you mentioned.
 
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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

I need 4 switches. I'm doing the Jimmy Page wiring on a Les Paul. Another option I'm considering is like you said: switches on the audito taper (volume controls) leave the tones normal linear...

As Zombiwoof pointed out, linear is not normal for tones. Linear is normal for volume controls (for a number of manufacturers anyway, including Gibson), but unless you want the tones to act almost like an on/off tone switch with all the range packed in to the very bottom, tone controls use exclusively audio.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Hmmm
I have always used linear potentiometers for volume and audio for tones

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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

As Zombiwoof pointed out, linear is not normal for tones. Linear is normal for volume controls (for a number of manufacturers anyway, including Gibson), but unless you want the tones to act almost like an on/off tone switch with all the range packed in to the very bottom, tone controls use exclusively audio.

Zombie is correct that Gibson uses audio taper for both volume and tones - that's what my LP Standard has in it, and which explains why that's all I'm finding in long shaft push/pulls. I prefer linear on tone pots so I wanted to see if someone had seen them around, but if audio is all there is I can live with it.

It's not correct to say linear is normal for volume and behaves like an on/off switch, however. Audio taper is a logarithmic taper, designed for volume controls to match the sensitivity of human ears to perceived changes in levels of sound. Being logarithmic, audio taper has a severe rate of change at one end of the potentiometer travel. Linear on the other hand, by definition, has a consistent rate of change - an even transition - through the entire travel of the wiper.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Zombie is correct that Gibson uses audio taper for both volume and tones - that's what my LP Standard has in it, and which explains why that's all I'm finding in long shaft push/pulls. I prefer linear on tone pots so I wanted to see if someone had seen them around, but if audio is all there is I can live with it.

It's not correct to say linear is normal for volume and behaves like an on/off switch, however. Audio taper is a logarithmic taper, designed for volume controls to match the sensitivity of human ears to perceived changes in levels of sound. Being logarithmic, audio taper has a severe rate of change at one end of the potentiometer travel. Linear on the other hand, by definition, has a consistent rate of change - an even transition - through the entire travel of the wiper.

Gibson doesn't use audio all around - they use audio for tone, and linear for volumes - been this way standard for over 40 years. This is actually standard wiring for the majority of guitars sold today if you count all the imports (Fender, PRS, and many other American makers still use audio all around).

As to the relationship between logarithmic taper and perceived loudness changes in our hearing, as often as you'll hear and read this it is actually kind of a half-truth. Yes, our ears do perceive loudness in a logarithmic fashion, and if you're using a pot to regulate power to an amplifier circuit then logarithmic pots are a given. Catch is, neither volume nor tone pots behave nearly so simply in the way their circuits are arranged, and do not actually deliver a rate of change in volume or tone which reliably mirrors their taper of resistance.

Until you get in to the extreme lower range of value (think 50k linear tone pots in a Jazzmaster rhythm circuit), linear pots do tend to act like a much more abrupt switch at the bottom, packing most of the usable range down from 3-1. There are a few who may like this, but that's how they work,and I don't know of any manufacturers using linear pots as standard for tone.

I would suggest just going with audio pots all around. Then if you want closer to linear for the volumes (as Gibson uses standard), you can modify the effective taper to lean in this direction by use of a resistor between the upper lugs, or a cap/resistor combo for a treble bleed circuit. I can't see wanting to use linear for tone though, unless perhaps you want all the range in the bottom third for things like quick tone swells in a shorter rotation without having to turn all the way up.

This should make your search for parts a bit simpler at least.
 
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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Gibson doesn't use audio all around - they use audio for tone, and linear for volumes - been this way standard for over 40 years. This is actually standard wiring for the majority of guitars sold today if you count all the imports (Fender, PRS, and many other American makers still use audio all around).

All four pots in my 1994 Gibson Les Paul Standard are part number 440-71079-A, which is an audio taper pot.

Until you get in to the extreme lower range of value (think 50k linear tone pots in a Jazzmaster rhythm circuit), linear pots do tend to act like a much more abrupt switch at the bottom, packing most of the usable range down from 3-1. There are a few who may like this, but that's how they work,and I don't know of any manufacturers using linear pots as standard for tone.

We'll have to agree to disagree. As owner of a large number of electric guitars and years of playing, I have not had that experience using linear pots.

I would suggest just going with audio pots all around. Then if you want closer to linear for the volumes (as Gibson uses standard), you can modify the effective taper to lean in this direction by use of a resistor between the upper lugs, or a cap/resistor combo for a treble bleed circuit.

Adding a resistor to the lugs in parallel to the pot does not change the taper, it changes the range of values.

Bleed circuits are to avoid losing treble frequencies while turning the volume down and not what I need or want on my guitar at this time.

The resulting value for resistors in parallel is (R1 * R2) / (R1 + R2), so if I add a 500K resistor in parallel across the lugs of a 500K pot, I've halved the available total to 250K, so my pot will effectively only go from 0 - 250K, but the taper remains the same because the variable resistance material in the pot that the wiper travels over is unchanged by the addition of a resistor outside the pot.

For the record, I'm fine with audio taper for volume. I prefer linear on tone controls because a linear tone control gives even precision across all 10 increments. It's linear - equal increments the whole way.
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

That's interesting regarding your '94 Standard. I've seen a handful of 70's Gibsons shortly after they made the official transition where pots were misplaced, linear tones, all linear, even reversed on the bridge vs neck pickup (it was a crazy time), but the official standard wiring since mid-1973 has been 300k linear volumes, and 500k audio tones. I've worked on thousands of Gibsons, did warranty service for them for years, and can comfortably state this as an unequivocal fact (Custom Shop / Reissue series aside, which do generally come with 500k audio all around). It's possible that yours was a glitch in manufacturing. Or if you acquired it second hand they may have been changed, as a great number of the early-90's 300k linear volume pots made by CGE proved to be defective with the wiper never fully reaching ground at 0, leaving a trickle of signal still coming through when turned down. Or still another possibility is that they recognized this problem in manufacturing around then and switched to the 500k audios they had stocked for tone to use all around for a brief period until the problem with the 300k linears was resolved from the supplier. I've not noticed such a period, but it's possible and I just may have missed it. In any case, 300k linear volume and 500k audio tone has been their standard arrangement in Les Pauls since mid-'73.

Regarding the differing effects, preferences can certainly change, but how I describe it is correct. Linear pots do not have significant effect until the bottom third on tone controls, compared to audio which spread the usable range of adjustment through a much broader area of rotation. This is a consistent rule until you get down in the extreme lower range of pot values (50k-ish and below). I made a series of videos demonstrating this with an external control box using multiple CTS pots selected to within 1% tolerance and driven /synched off a central geared shaft for real time switching and comparison. Tone pots are demonstrated in video 2, volumes in #3, and the effects of resistors and treble bleeds in #4.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO33g8sM_b8V2Z25rI2VPWFOb00X79wIn

That's how they work.

Regarding the taper modifications, I believe you misunderstood. First, this was specifically in reference to volume controls, not tone. Indeed if you place a resistor across the outer lugs it will primarily affect the overall load with relatively little change to the taper. I was referring to a resistor between the center and upper lug of the volume however, which does alter the taper in the upper end of the sweep to more closely resemble a linear volume. Lower the value, greater the effect, 150k-330k often the most preferred range.

If you do prefer linear for tone that's quite fine, as a very small number of players indeed do. It's not by any stretch what most would describe as a more even sweep though. The tone only works off one side of the wiper, and requires quite an extreme logarithmic sweep to quickly get down to a range where it really engages the cap in any meaningful way across the coil. The volume on the other hand, simultaneously separates the coil from the amp on one side while also loading down the amp input on the other, which is just one of several reasons why a logarithmic resistance taper does not often accurately deliver a logarithmic effect on loudness (results will vary widely depending on pickups, amp, and settings used).

In any case, I'm not sure in what way you use your tone controls, and perhaps linear works fine for you. Audio is the nearly universal standard though, with the only exceptions typically being players who want almost the entire range packed down in to the very bottom. That's simply how they work.
 
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Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Ok man, you and your test meters win the argument.

But the schematic for all 2-pickup Les Pauls from 1954 to present shows audio taper for all 4 pots. I bought my Les Paul new - I am the only owner of the guitar and it is bone stock.

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/lespaul2.gif

Right now, I'm trying to do a specific wiring. The Jimmy Page model with push/pulls specifies linear taper for all four, but I can only find audio push/pulls with long shaft pots, hence this thread.

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/pagewiring.gif
 
Re: *Linear taper* long shaft 500K push pulls?

Again, MOST Production Gibsons for many years have used 300k linear volume pots and 500k audio tone pots, though there are a couple of exceptions (someone said that the new Traditional LP's have 500's all around for instance). A '94 LP Standard should have those pots, if they are all audio pots the volume pots have probably been changed out. Historic/Custom shop models have recently had all 500k audio pots, as the vintage Gibsons had.
Secondly, the reason some don't like modern audio pots (like stock CTS), is that there are different audio tapers (10%, 30%, etc.), the vintage audio taper pots used in the old Gibsons had a smoother audio taper than the current stock CTS, which have the opposite effect to linear volumes, new CTS have most of the change in volume at the top of the rotation. That's why so many custom taper pots are being made now by several companies, that try to replicate the vintage audio taper pots in the vintage guiitars. So IMO the best volume pots today are the vintage-type custom audio taper pots, many of which have been discussed on this forum in the past, so I won't list them all here. I don't like linear volumes, because you have to turn them almost all the way down to get any appreciable change in volume, and then they cut off completely. I'd take even the stock CTS audio pots over those, but the custom vintage taper pots to me are worth the little bit extra cost, for those who like to use their volume pots a lot, and don't just leave the pot on "10" all the time. For tones, I think audio is better, but if you like linear, that's cool, personally I don't see tone pots as being as important as volume pots in terms of taper.

Al
 
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