Locking nut replacement time?

[Coma]

Spring is here and tis time to do some nice setups. I've got an early 90's Japanese guitar with a FR Pro that I bought on a whim but that never stays in tune. The bridge studs were kinda loose in their sockets, but I managed to fix that. Took the guitar to a techie who failed miserably at doing a setup - massive fret buzz and still kept detuning.

Decided that its much too nice of a guitar to just sit in a case for the remainder of its life, and I couldn't in good conscience sell it without fixing the problem first, so I took it out and did a setup. Opened up the locking nut and there's a BIG groove in the g-string path. Could this be the source of the problem? One string goes out of tune and the whole Floyd starts acting wo0nky, as they are prone to do. What do you guys think? Is it worth getting a new nut? Would it solve the tuning issues? It's a rarer model, so I'd have to order the part from abroad, nobody here carries it.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

How is the string clamp fastened to the neck? Wood screws from the top down or threaded bolts from the back of the neck upwards? Are the fastening holes an unusual distance apart?

Either way, the simplest option would be to replace the whole thing. (Keep the original parts in the case.) As long as everything is either Imperial or Metric, the fit should be good.

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Threaded bolts going from back of headstock to front. Drilled all the way through. Nothing unusual about the fastnening holes. Also checked for oversized screws (another one of my guitars wouldn't stay in tune, turned out some idiot had replaced the original nut screws with longer ones that kept the clamps from locking down properly). Nut size is R4/2. Closest thing they have today is R8 size.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Buff the groove
Reinstall 90 degrees out

My buddy has one of those with the same problem
The mounting bolts in back were too tall
Ordered a box from Amazon.com for 6 bucks
M3x8 mm
Is the correct size

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Buff the groove
Reinstall 90 degrees out

My buddy has one of those with the same problem
The mounting bolts in back were too tall
Ordered a box from Amazon.com for 6 bucks
M3x8 mm
Is the correct size

I don't understand, what do you mean by "reinstall 90 degrees out"?

I fixed the mounting bolts with my dad's belt sander. Sparks flying everywhere but they fit snug as a bug now

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

could be a few things.

I'd agree with replacing the whole thing. not sure what your deals are in Sweden on items from Germany, but check out the Schaller LockMeister. same level of quality as the old original 80s ones they made for FR. if those aren't any better of a deal, look at a regular German FR. I have a few of the LockMeister units and I think they are great. anything else (outside of the titanium) could lack the tolerances of the good units.

when you fixed the studs, do you mean the actual studs were loose in the inserts? or were the inserts loose in the wood?

personally, I'd not go grinding on the nut clamp blocks. look at the profile and you'll see the surface is radiused to match the curve of the locking nut surface...go digging into that and you could end up replacing it anyway. the "FR Pro" is the bridge and a "regular" FR nut will be fine. FR still sells the R4 nut... or again, check with Schaller there in Germany.

when replacing a FR nut to a different #, always be sure to double check the the height of the nut. some are taller and shorter and could require a serious shim or removing some nut shelf. for example, the R4 is .278"/7.10 mm and the R8 is .225"/5.70 mm.


FR Nut Chart PDF

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Square plate with hole in center
Groove where string crosses

Buff the groove
Turn clockwise
1/4 turn
Re install
Groove now perpendicular to strings

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

could be a few things.

I'd agree with replacing the whole thing. not sure what your deals are in Sweden on items from Germany, but check out the Schaller LockMeister. same level of quality as the old original 80s ones they made for FR. if those aren't any better of a deal, look at a regular German FR. I have a few of the LockMeister units and I think they are great. anything else (outside of the titanium) could lack the tolerances of the good units.

when you fixed the studs, do you mean the actual studs were loose in the inserts? or were the inserts loose in the wood?

personally, I'd not go grinding on the nut clamp blocks. look at the profile and you'll see the surface is radiused to match the curve of the locking nut surface...go digging into that and you could end up replacing it anyway. the "FR Pro" is the bridge and a "regular" FR nut will be fine. FR still sells the R4 nut... or again, check with Schaller there in Germany.

when replacing a FR nut to a different #, always be sure to double check the the height of the nut. some are taller and shorter and could require a serious shim or removing some nut shelf. for example, the R4 is .278"/7.10 mm and the R8 is .225"/5.70 mm.


FR Nut Chart PDF

I've actually looked up the lockmeister for a guitar I bought two weeks ago, so I'm familiar with it. Hopefully won't need one, esp since the guitar I'm trying to fix has a Floyd Rose Pro.

Perhaps I was unclear, my bad - I wouldn't go grinding the nut (giggety), I grinded down the two screws holding the nut in place (was also on a different guitar).

The nut isn't R4, it's R4/2, which they no longer make. Supposedly, it's the width of an R4 but the hight of an R2. Which overlaps fairly well with an R8, so I guess that's their current replacement.

When I say the bridge posts are loose I mean the connection between the hex head screws and inserts, not between inserts and body. They rock forwards and back a bit, though that seems to be eliminated by the pressure of bridge and strings, so I'm not super worried about it.

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[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Square plate with hole in center
Groove where string crosses

Buff the groove
Turn clockwise
1/4 turn
Re install
Groove now perpendicular to strings

I think you misunderstood me, the groove isn't in the clamp, it's in the nut itself.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Oh then yes I did

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Well, good news. I bought a new nut and the detuning issues seem to have been largely cured. Still acts a bit wonky but brand new strings, so won't know for sure until two days or so.

Props to Schaller Germany for being super professional and helpful. Couldn't find that exact nut on their web page so I emailed them about it, got a response from their CEO the same day. Less than a week later, the part was delivered by UPS, all in all the cost was less than buying it in any store around here or even ordering it from Thomann (would have been an additional 11 euros tacked onto the price tag + shipping). So yay Schaller!

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[greekdude]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Cool man! thats nice. Sorry for being late, but I think that a layer of steel re-inforced epoxy on the nut's base to fill the groove might do the trick. If you still have the old nut you may give it a go for another project.

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Thanks for the tip. I love toying around with stuff like that when I have the time, so if I get the opportunity I'll try it for sure.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Props to Schaller Germany for being super professional and helpful. Couldn't find that exact nut on their web page so I emailed them about it, got a response from their CEO the same day. Less than a week later, the part was delivered by UPS, all in all the cost was less than buying it in any store around here or even ordering it from Thomann (would have been an additional 11 euros tacked onto the price tag + shipping). So yay Schaller!

that's very cool!

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Ok, new problem now: everything worked fine and whatnot, but after playing for a couple of wee... errr, months now, I'm getting some pretty anoying fret buzz on the e and b strings when pressing down on everything below the 5th fret. I reckon its partially because the strings aren't fresh anymore and they should probably be replaced anyway, BUT, I still want it to go away (because even with old strings, a guitar should ahve this problem). Is this an issues of needing to raise the nut or could something more sinister be at play, like frets not being leveled or, worse yet, uneven fretboard?

 

[dave74]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Ok, new problem now: everything worked fine and whatnot, but after playing for a couple of wee... errr, months now, I'm getting some pretty anoying fret buzz on the e and b strings when pressing down on everything below the 5th fret. I reckon its partially because the strings aren't fresh anymore and they should probably be replaced anyway, BUT, I still want it to go away (because even with old strings, a guitar should ahve this problem). Is this an issues of needing to raise the nut or could something more sinister be at play, like frets not being leveled or, worse yet, uneven fretboard?

Open string buzz would have to do with the nut height and/or neck-relief.
The fact that it's a buzz while fretting the 1st-5th says it's more than likely needing a tad more relief.
Could be more to it, but most of the time if it's going to be the relief if the string is not buzzing open or higher up on the board but is buzzing on the low frets.
If the string buzz is all up and down the board then it's most likely the action.

Floyd systems can also be shimmed at the nut (collectively) and/or the saddle (individually), so it's a matter of adjusting the base settings universally, and then calibrating the saddles if needed.

 

[Coma]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Ah, sorry, should've been more clear: no buzz on open frets.

Also, wouldn't over tightened truss rod/insufficient relief result in fret buzz somewhere closer to the twelfth fret?

 

[Chad]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Could be lots of things: might need more nut height, frets may be unlevel, could be that it's warped on that part of the fretboard, etc.

 

[dave74]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Ah, sorry, should've been more clear: no buzz on open frets.

Also, wouldn't over tightened truss rod/insufficient relief result in fret buzz somewhere closer to the twelfth fret?

No, not unless there was other issues as well. By the time you get to the 12th there will be plenty of room for the string's movement.
If the buzz is only on the lower frets (and not on the opens) then it's probably just too little relief.

 

[Chad]

Re: Locking nut replacement time?

Action is largely set with nut height on the lower frets, relief in the middle of the neck, and bridge height for the upper part of the neck. They all work together with each other as part of a setup, but that's the general guidelines. So I don't think buzzing in the lower frets will be helped directly by adjusting relief.