long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

[moth_baller]

Hi. long story short I quit playing. A new interest has started 10 years later since my mom wants to learn. Either way I have a peavey 5150 2x12 combo. I have to dig it out of the garage in the next few days but it has issues. I have a real love/hate relationship with it. I love it but 60 watts in a 90 lb package?

Last time I tried to turn it on, Large tubes arched like a lightning ball and the fuse blows. Put a new fuse in it and it repeats. Doesn't even warm up. I bought it used. It had a problem right after I bought it. Guy who sold it to me fixed it for free. I've moved 1200 miles away since then so I can't bring it back to him. Despite being a ******, he always fixed the stuff I bought from him no questions and no fee.

I know tubes are usually the culprit first.I can't seem to find that exact symptom with the lightning ball thing. At this point it needs new tubes probably. It has (at least the large ones) Mojo tubes that are still the ones that were in it when I bought it.

The 5150 is for me (I'm giving moms my 30w marshall mg30cd that I need to solder a new input jack on) so I could use some tube recommendations. this time around I'm looking for a semi hollow guitar. Somewhat significant part of why I quit was because I can't shred, play slayer, and death metal which I love. I want to ditch a lot of that and play blues, country (old country), and mellow stuff which I always have been into. Tubes that would compliment that and still handle some gain. Maybe like an all arounder type of tube?

FYI, you may have to speak idiot to me. I've been trying to re-educate myself on terms. I've been gone a while.

 

[VinceT]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Sorry to say it, but that doesn't sound like the tubes are likely to be the problem - is there a decent amp tech where you live? Before spending anything else on the amp, I would take it in for a health check. The voltage/current in an amp can potentially kill you, so don't try to troubleshoot things on the cheap (you want to be around to play a few tunes with your Ma!)

Best of luck, and welcome back to the world o' guitar - it's the BEST place to be!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

I agree, this doesn't sound like a tube problem. I would look for a good amp tech and get it fixed right up. After that, sell it. I don't know if you want to lug around 90lbs, or use it as a piece of furniture in your house. I like the 5150 sound, but it isn't worth the weight of those combos to me.

 

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

I agree, this doesn't sound like a tube problem. I would look for a good amp tech and get it fixed right up.

I also agree with previous posters. There's also the chance that if you get new tubes now, and the problem is indeed somewhere else, you destroy your new tubes as well! So best to take it to an amp tech!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

You can turn the amp on without tubes installed. If it still blows the fuse without tubes then it is not the tubes and should go to a tech (going to a tech is good idea anyway). Which fuse, the mains fuse or the HT fuse? If it is the mains fuse then it is most likely in the power supply. Make sure you use slow blow fuses of the correct rating when replacing fuses. Tube amps must use slow blow fuses.

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

I'm keeping it and fixing it. It's going to be me, myself and I for a while getting back into playing again. Mine is in far better shape than online examples. North of $400 it's worth it to fix it.Too many memories to just write her off. Like my 30w marshall that I'm going to replace the input jack and give to my mom. I can work on this stuff, I just need to know ahead of time if I'm going to have to do more work than I think.

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

You can turn the amp on without tubes installed. If it still blows the fuse without tubes then it is not the tubes and should go to a tech (going to a tech is good idea anyway). Which fuse, the mains fuse or the HT fuse? If it is the mains fuse then it is most likely in the power supply. Make sure you use slow blow fuses of the correct rating when replacing fuses. Tube amps must use slow blow fuses.

I am going to dig the beast out of the garage in the next day or two. I have to make some room for it. I will look at it and make sure I have the right fuse. As far as I can tell, I only have one fuse and the right one. I got them at radio shack. The owner is the one who helped me and he played and was a peavey guy,

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

So I finally got the amp out. Popped in a new fuse. And golden with the power tubes out. No blown fuse.

Actually the power tubes weren't in the amp. I guess I had the intention of replacing them and never did.

So I need some tube recommendations. If I'm not mistaken it uses 6l6gc tubes.

Amp originally had MOJO tubes. I'm inclined to toss a pair of jj tubes in it. They're about 40 for a pair which is about all I want to spend. I'm pretty ignorant on tubes never having to replace any before.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-corner/6l6gc-comparison-current-made-tubes

From the summery of the above review:

This tube is fat and smooth with some sparkle on the top-end. It offers more bite than most.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/6L6-Tube-Reviews

From the tube store review of the JJ 6L6GC:

Big, open, articulate; these are the words that came into my head when listening to the JJ tubes. The build quality is very rugged with thick glass and a well supported plate assembly. Perhaps this is a factor in the extremely low noise and lack of microphonics that this tube exhibits. The tubes have great tone and nicely capture the “6L6 sound”, characterized by sparkling highs, warm mids, and controlled bass response. Biasing was easy and well within the range of the standard bias adjustment circuit in the test amp. A great choice for any of the Fender amps made in the 60’s and 70’s.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

I'm pretty ignorant on tubes never having to replace any before.

I'm not familiar with biasing arraignments on the Peavy 5150 amps. You probably will need to adjust the bias or have a tech do it. Just installing new tubes without checking the bias might not be a good idea. Be careful there and find out how and what needs to be done.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Unfortunately the original 5150's dont have an internal bias adjustment. They are fixed to a value that is relatively cold for the 6l6 types that are standard for the amp. The newer 6505 and 6505+ do but not the original evh endorsed models. It was done most likely that way for a number of reasons.

1. To make replacement relatively plug and play
2. Make the valves likely to outlast the factory warranty on them.
3. The evident crossover notch from the icy biasing actually helps with noise some
4. It was possibly part of the sound concept

Any tech worth their salt should be able to fit one for you if you want to be able to adjust the bias, but if you like the sound as is, you certainly don't have to have one fitted. Just don't stick anything in it that requires an even more negative grid voltage to reflect a desirable idle plate current like 6550's or kt88's.

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

I've seen that same article from amp parts. I need to to do some reading to understand the majority of what is said. It's definitely Greek to me.

I may have to pop it apart to double check that the bias mod wasn't already done to it. I doubt that it was done. I got it used when it was (going by debut date need to check seriel) maybe 7 years old like '97. Yes I'm not afraid of electronics to find out and have absorbed my fair share of voltage.

Considering I haven't heard it in a good ten plus years I could honestly put anything in it and probably be just as enamored with it when I first plugged into it. I'd much rather keep it original.

I originally wanted tubes that would calm it down some. Have the ability to run a cleaner tone since the direction I want to with my playing is cleaner tones. I got my old cheap PA running that I'll use for that now. I'm relegated to a bedroom player for a while or for good so the peavey isn't going to get used much. It want meant to be stifled by inappropriate low volume.

I didn't know it was a valve amp. Need to read on what that is. Heard the term thrown around that it makes the amp louder somehow. Mostly when referred to with marshall and orange amps.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Any new 6L6GC set will be fine. Plug them in and see and hear how it goes. The bias according to Joey's post is fixed so that if you plug in a 6L6GC it will operate in a safe range. You just don't want the plates in the tubes to start to glow red (not to be confused the normal orange glow of the heater filliments) or anything.

I didn't know it was a valve amp. Need to read on what that is.

Valve is the term the British use for vacuum tubes. It means it is a tube amp. The Peavy 5150 is based on the great Soldano SLO 100. It's not an exact copy of course but the basic circuit design is similar. The design creates the distortion in the high gain pre amp. The power amp is designed to be fairly neutral and more accurately reproduce the tone already created in the pre amp. You can then control the volume of the power amp using the master volume. It should not need to be stupid loud to sound good although it can get stupid loud if need be. The 6L6GC is a good tube for this design.

I originally wanted tubes that would calm it down some.

Those would be pre amp tubes actually. It probably uses 12AX7s in every position. You can try using lower gain versions of 12AX7s in certain positions to calm down the amount of gain and distortion. A tube such as the 5751 in V1 or V2 will reduce the amount of distortion created in the pre amp. The preamp tubes are usually numbered in order starting with V1 being the one farthest away from the power tubes. V1 is the most important tube affecting the tone in a tube amp.

The one closest to the power tubes is usually the phase inverter tube. Fenders usually use a 12AT7 tube there for more clean headroom. A 12AT7 in the PI increases the headroom (how loud it can go before it compresses or distorts the tone) of the power amp. A 12AX7 there decreases the headroom of the power amp.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Yes It's a loose copy of the SLO in the preamp, but does have some extra stuff that refines it a bit, and obviously is a lot more compressed than an slo, enough to make it sound quite a bit different. When the 5150 amps came out, they were, and probably still are, one of the highest gain amps on the market.

trying other tube types is a good plug and play way to adjust your sound, however the only issue you might run into is that some (most) don't bias up well or equally with the peripherals used for one type versus the other, so it won't be an even comparison if you stick a 12au7 in for a 12ax7 with out adjusting its quiescent operating point. Something similar to the 12ax7 like a 5751 is fair game though.

The same goes for using a 12at7 for the PI. You can use one in place of a 12ax7 with out too much issue in the sense that it will work, but you won't likely reap the benefits from doing so. The larger plate loads that most 12ax7's use really push the 12at7 into the most non-linear portion of its grid curves, the biasing at the cathode is off a little as well. To really get the headroom from it you would need to make a few adjustments.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

bes. It means it is a tube amp. The Peavy 5150 is based on the great Soldano SLO 100. It's not an exact copy of course but the basic circuit design is similar. The design creates the distortion in the high gain pre amp. an get stupid loud if need be.

Funny you mention it but I did gut one of my 5150's into an slo 100

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Any new 6L6GC set will be fine. Plug them in and see and hear how it goes. The bias according to Joey's post is fixed so that if you plug in a 6L6GC it will operate in a safe range. You just don't want the plates in the tubes to start to glow red (not to be confused the normal orange glow of the heater filliments) or anything.



Valve is the term the British use for vacuum tubes. It means it is a tube amp. The Peavy 5150 is based on the great Soldano SLO 100. It's not an exact copy of course but the basic circuit design is similar. The design creates the distortion in the high gain pre amp. The power amp is designed to be fairly neutral and more accurately reproduce the tone already created in the pre amp. You can then control the volume of the power amp using the master volume. It should not need to be stupid loud to sound good although it can get stupid loud if need be. The 6L6GC is a good tube for this design.



Those would be pre amp tubes actually. It probably uses 12AX7s in every position. You can try using lower gain versions of 12AX7s in certain positions to calm down the amount of gain and distortion. A tube such as the 5751 in V1 or V2 will reduce the amount of distortion created in the pre amp. The preamp tubes are usually numbered in order starting with V1 being the one farthest away from the power tubes. V1 is the most important tube affecting the tone in a tube amp.

The one closest to the power tubes is usually the phase inverter tube. Fenders usually use a 12AT7 tube there for more clean headroom. A 12AT7 in the PI increases the headroom (how loud it can go before it compresses or distorts the tone) of the power amp. A 12AX7 there decreases the headroom of the power amp.

Cool. Good info. When I've heard the term valve tossed around it is always from someone British. Makes a lot of sense now.

I didn't know the preamp tubes would what would actually calm it down. I always understood the power tubes were responsible of that. With the distortion created in the preamp that makes sense.

I've heard the name soldano but never heard that the 5150 was based on that amp. I'm not very versed on amps that aren't marshall, peavey, fender or mesa.

I went and looked to see what tubes were in the preamp section. No brand on them. It uses 12ax7 tubes in the preamp. I feel sort of dumb searching for the tube size. It's printed next to the sockets.

 

[moth_baller]

Re: long hiatus. 5150 issues and new tube recommendations

Yes It's a loose copy of the SLO in the preamp, but does have some extra stuff that refines it a bit, and obviously is a lot more compressed than an slo, enough to make it sound quite a bit different. When the 5150 amps came out, they were, and probably still are, one of the highest gain amps on the market.

trying other tube types is a good plug and play way to adjust your sound, however the only issue you might run into is that some (most) don't bias up well or equally with the peripherals used for one type versus the other, so it won't be an even comparison if you stick a 12au7 in for a 12ax7 with out adjusting its quiescent operating point. Something similar to the 12ax7 like a 5751 is fair game though.

The same goes for using a 12at7 for the PI. You can use one in place of a 12ax7 with out too much issue in the sense that it will work, but you won't likely reap the benefits from doing so. The larger plate loads that most 12ax7's use really push the 12at7 into the most non-linear portion of its grid curves, the biasing at the cathode is off a little as well. To really get the headroom from it you would need to make a few adjustments.

Yes, the gain is pretty crazy on it but I love it. Never a need to own a distortion pedal. Have a metal zone but it's well, a metal zone. Since having the PA running I have no real need right now to attempt to lower it at all.