Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

[johnthomas]

Hi guys,
Interested in bigbottle sound: 6L6 or EL34 and prefer Fenderish sounds for blues, classic rock.
Personally don't mind the reverb on Blackstars, so Ibanez TSA30 slightly less appreciated. Anybody tried the Blackstar Artist 15 or 30?
Blackstar HT40 or mk2 HT40
Quality issues? How are the fx loops if you use a preamp pedal like a Tech21 Flyrig5? Etc.
Any actual pedal platform clean users?

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[IM4Tone]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

I can't answer your specific questions, but may be able to provide some additional info. I own a TSA15H and a HT20H and have played with a person that had the HT40.

For my tastes, the Blackstar amps have more gain than appeals to me. The only way I could 'tame' the gain even close to my liking was with a replacement of V1 with a 5751 tube. Still, I could barely get it low enough to suit me. The HT40 seemed very similar to me...just additional power/wattage. The loop worked just fine for it's intended purpose and I like the line out in lieu of mic'ing.

I was interested in getting a TSA30H after owning the TSA15H (The TSA15 is fairly quiet), but found them to be quite scarce in the US. It is very different than the TSA15H, but shares one characteristic that you may not care for. TSA amps do NOT have a conventional effects loop, i.e. one that allows the insertion between the preamp and power amp. What they call a loop allows the insertion between the on-board tube screamer circuitry prior to the preamp section. For those who strongly believe in placing their modulation effects between preamp and power amp, it can't be done. I'm not of this school and always run all my pedals in the guitar to amp signal chain, so it's a non-issue to me. In the end, I couldn't find a store that had one in stock to try, so I gave up.

Regarding the Flyrig5, I bought one when they first came out and immediately (after trial) returned it. I found them to be extremely 'hissy' regardless of the point of application: front of amp; in-the-loop; or DI to a PA.

Hope this is a bit of help, though I know it doesn't answer all of your questions/concerns.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

I can't answer your specific questions, but may be able to provide some additional info. I own a TSA15H and a HT20H and have played with a person that had the HT40.

For my tastes, the Blackstar amps have more gain than appeals to me. The only way I could 'tame' the gain even close to my liking was with a replacement of V1 with a 5751 tube. Still, I could barely get it low enough to suit me. The HT40 seemed very similar to me...just additional power/wattage. The loop worked just fine for it's intended purpose and I like the line out in lieu of mic'ing.

I was interested in getting a TSA30H after owning the TSA15H (The TSA15 is fairly quiet), but found them to be quite scarce in the US. It is very different than the TSA15H, but shares one characteristic that you may not care for. TSA amps do NOT have a conventional effects loop, i.e. one that allows the insertion between the preamp and power amp. What they call a loop allows the insertion between the on-board tube screamer circuitry prior to the preamp section. For those who strongly believe in placing their modulation effects between preamp and power amp, it can't be done. I'm not of this school and always run all my pedals in the guitar to amp signal chain, so it's a non-issue to me. In the end, I couldn't find a store that had one in stock to try, so I gave up.

Regarding the Flyrig5, I bought one when they first came out and immediately (after trial) returned it. I found them to be extremely 'hissy' regardless of the point of application: front of amp; in-the-loop; or DI to a PA.

Hope this is a bit of help, though I know it doesn't answer all of your questions/concerns.

Thanks very much for the detailed analysis of the TSA loop. Like you, I am not a seeker of hi-gain. My only experience with Blackstar so far has been the HT5 head with a 1960 Marshall 4x12. It played nice with a Flyrig but I didn't mess with the o.d.
I think the Artisan 15 is a much more Fenderish amp...eg 6L6 output plus birch cab and the new Celestion V, which is now on Fender 68 Reverb reissues. The descriptions say much less gain on 2nd channel to be more pedal friendly. BTW, the Tech 21 flyrig is hissy after about 2pm on output or gain dials but I can deal with that...I keep output at noon and gain around 1...lol

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[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

I did find another welcome bit of info watching Rob Chapman demo of the Artist series. Though the amps are 2 channel, the channel one option BYPASSES the preamp section....This is ideal for multifx users...I presently go from a pedalboard with a Tech21 Flyrig as its voicing section into a Tech21 Power Engine as my main rig with a Blues Jr tweed as a grab n go.. Been wanting a bit more tube and this series from Blackstar hits most of the things I like.
Still sort of waiting for alternatives to present themselves. The lack of a 3rd 12ax7 preamp tube likely means this suffers from solid state invertor...I still like what I am hearing and probably won't go for a 68 Fender Deluxe ri or Super Reverb, though these have gorgeous sound.

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[stratguy23]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

I spent about 20 to 30 minutes at NAMM playing a Blackstar Artist 15. That's saying something, since NAMM has 10 billion things.

It is an amazing amp. I like the HT series as workhorse amps, but the Artist 15 was to me a boutique experience. Extremely responsive to you and the guitar, a very direct connection to the player. I don't know anything about the circuit, but I got the feeling that it was very simple, because the experience was so pure.

The Artist 15 wasn't high gain. It got to classic rock if you cranked it. It has the Blackstar ISF control for American/British voicing, which I remember not being much of anything. The overall feeling I got was similar to the Fender/old Marshall vibe.

I've only briefly played an Ibanez TSA amp (probably the 15), but not long enough to form an impression. It seems to be well-regarded, especially as a pedal platform, though it is a cheaper amp made to a price point. The Blackstar Artisan 15 reminded me of a Dr. Z amp I once played in that I just wanted to play the amp and didn't even think about the fact that there no pedals used at the time.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

I spent about 20 to 30 minutes at NAMM playing a Blackstar Artist 15. That's saying something, since NAMM has 10 billion things.

It is an amazing amp. I like the HT series as workhorse amps, but the Artist 15 was to me a boutique experience. Extremely responsive to you and the guitar, a very direct connection to the player. I don't know anything about the circuit, but I got the feeling that it was very simple, because the experience was so pure.

The Artist 15 wasn't high gain. It got to classic rock if you cranked it. It has the Blackstar ISF control for American/British voicing, which I remember not being much of anything. The overall feeling I got was similar to the Fender/old Marshall vibe.

I've only briefly played an Ibanez TSA amp (probably the 15), but not long enough to form an impression. It seems to be well-regarded, especially as a pedal platform, though it is a cheaper amp made to a price point. The Blackstar Artisan 15 reminded me of a Dr. Z amp I once played in that I just wanted to play the amp and didn't even think about the fact that there no pedals used at the time.

thanks, stratguy23
Nice to hear an actual response to playing the amp...NAMM always has a few things one remembers...I bought my D'Angelico Ex-DC after seeing it at NAMM a couple years ago.
Watching the faces at Rob Chapman, they seem to agree about liking the Artists.
The TSA amps were interesting due to 6v6 6L6 usage but lack of a true fx loop is a definite no in my book.
Since I don't want to spend boutique money, perhaps the Artist series will be as close as I can get. About 90% sure at this point.

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[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

To IM4tone,
I played the HT5 again today and this time I tried the od channel.
Your comments about gain were 100% correct. The HT series seems to start gain at full plexi with anything less gain = zero volume.
So....HT series definitely a non starter though I imagine I could get by just on the clean channel if it was the only amp available....just can't see never using the gain channel. Waste not...etc etc

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[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

Looks like HT Venue mkII series
adds a 2nd od channel to address the lack of edge of breakup versatility in the mkI versions...new product with not a lot of demos online yet....For me the Artist 30 sounds a bit better feature wise...and weighs 49.2 lbs...

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[IM4Tone]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

If 45 -49#s is OK with you, may I suggest trying both the Peavey Delta Blues 115 and the Fender BDRI. I changed out the V1 and V2 preamp tubes in the PV to 5751 (plug and go and not expensive) and it is one of my favorite amps. Mild bluesy OD up to significant crunch depending on your setting.

I also like the BDRI, but it can be loud. That's easily remedied by THIS.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

If 45 -49#s is OK with you, may I suggest trying both the Peavey Delta Blues 115 and the Fender BDRI. I changed out the V1 and V2 preamp tubes in the PV to 5751 (plug and go and not expensive) and it is one of my favorite amps. Mild bluesy OD up to significant crunch depending on your setting.

I also like the BDRI, but it can be loud. That's easily remedied by THIS.

Hi IM4Tone,
I thought about the Peavey. I like the 15" speaker for blues, but do not like the EL84s...
I could see myself changing on this, as the Blues Jr has a good tone. The Blues Deluxe sounds like @#it to me on its od channel and I hate the stock speaker as well...I had the money for it when I got the Blues Jr and the jr sounded better to me with a Jensen.
I could be happy with an Excelsior as a grab n go but really want an fx loop on my main rig. May revisit Peavey deltas...both the 2x10 and 15 have appeal and some character.

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[IM4Tone]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

..............The Blues Deluxe sounds like @#it to me on its od channel and I hate the stock speaker as well....

Very surprised. I rarely hear negative comments about the OD channel on the BDRI (other than the gain is limited to mild bluesy sounds...no hi-gain), but regarding its sibling from the Hot Rod line, the Hot Rod Deluxe, I've heard many responses of people not liking it's Drive/more Drive channel, including my own. But of course, taste is a personal thing.

 

[devastone]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

The Blackstar Artisan amps and the Venue HT series are totally different beasts, the Artisans are more boutique-y hand wired all tube amps that do low gain well. The HTs are intended to be do-it-all production amps and do have some SS stuff going on (as do lots of others in the lower to mid-price range, H&K Tubemeisters, Engl ____master series). I haven't played an HT in quite a while, but I remember they sounded good, although I do agree that they don't do the edge of breakup crunch thing well.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

The Blackstar Artisan amps and the Venue HT series are totally different beasts, the Artisans are more boutique-y hand wired all tube amps that do low gain well. The HTs are intended to be do-it-all production amps and do have some SS stuff going on (as do lots of others in the lower to mid-price range, H&K Tubemeisters, Engl ____master series). I haven't played an HT in quite a while, but I remember they sounded good, although I do agree that they don't do the edge of breakup crunch thing well.

The Artist series is pcb based reissue (sorta) of Artisan series, new in 2017. The HT venue mkII is newer also and is an attempt to make the series capable of crunch.
As you note the original Artisan series is approaching boutique level...the Artist series kept the birch cab instead of mdf (don't actually know what HTs have), slightly better speakers than HTs, and keeps fx loop and line out features.
For the same money as a Fender 68 DRRI, one gets better cab, same speaker x2 however one loses 5ar4 tube + 2 12at7 tubes and 1 12ax7...one definitely wonders about tone. I suspect the 5ar4 is a wash but think I really like 12at7 s...Sure wish Fenders would include line outs and fx loops. For $1000+ one hopes to be ok with a production amp...

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[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

Perhap a Fender Hot Rod 40 watt or Deville III 4x10?
If this thing 4x10 is really 50lbs it could be ideal...guess it has the modern fx loop etc missing on classic fenders...plus 6L6 tubes
Anybody got one of this series?

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[devastone]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

Thanks for clarifying on the Artist vs Artisans, didn't realize the Artist was new, apparently I was running those together in my head. Sounds like it could be a nice little amp for the $.

 

[johnthomas]

Re: Looking at Blackstars or Ibanez TSA30?

Thanks for clarifying on the Artist vs Artisans, didn't realize the Artist was new, apparently I was running those together in my head. Sounds like it could be a nice little amp for the $.

Definitely a better quality point for Blackstar a la the original Artisan series. So 6L6 something...I am beginning to think just get a Fender since they are the 6L6 kings...even the blues deluxe and hot rods have 3 12ax7 instead of two.

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