Low E won’t intonate on prs trem

[man-in-moon]

I have been setting my my CE22 and I can not get the low E to intonate. It keeps reading sharp. I set everything to PRS factory settings then tweaked a little from there to get it how I liked. String height at the 12th fret is 5/64 on the low bass side and 4/64 on the treble side as suggested by PRS.
the bridge is 1/16” of the body. And the neck relief is at .007. They suggest between .005 and .010. If I go any flatter it’s not comfortable to me. I usually prefer around .012-.013 relief. But it doesn’t seem to work well with this guitar.
I’ve shortened the saddle spring by around half so far to see if it would help. It’s still reading sharp I’ve tried 3 sets of strings just in case some were bad.
the nut is fine as well. Any advice on what I should try?
The intonation was good when I got it with 9’s. I use d’addario 10-46. So I didn’t make a big jump in string size.

 

[dave74]

I'd sure think the saddle would have enough travel for a 46 at E, without any mods,,,,,,,,,
Any chance the pickup is too close to the string and it's creating a weird overtone?

 

[Top-L]

My guess is that your tuner is confused. Some tuners are not accurate enough for setting intonation. Or low notes are out of range.

Are you saying that you have the saddle all the way back and its still sharp?

When intonating, you should be using the 12th fret compared to 24th, or 10th fret compared to 22nd. Intonating with open string vs 12th is not accurate.

The position of the nut is not always accurate, your low E open string could have incorrect spacing, which is why it never matches the 12th fret. However, if the low E open is flat, that can be good for metal riffing because the initial attack is sharp.

You will have to get your mind around this. Intonate 10th vs 22nd, but when tuning, tune the lowE so it sounds correct based on your style of playing.

 

[dave74]

I use 12th harmonic (same as open string but clearer) vs 12th fretted note.
Comes out fine like that for me but I do set the 6th string a little short, so that the 12th harmonic is right on and the 5th fretted is right on.

Depends to a degree on where the apex of the neck's relief is, and also how much clearance one prefers over the 1st fret.

IME it's better when there's ample (but obviously not too much) clearance over the 1st. When there's only like a sheet of paper clearance over the 1st it makes the 1st fretted notes quite flat. I just really hate that. You just about have to bend it true on those guitars.

In some cases (like hard attack) it's better to set the 6th string so that the 12th harmonic is true and the 3rd fretted note is true. (IMO) Then it's off a bit up high on the board.

Good point on the attack leading sharp Top-L. Very true and must be accounted for with many players in the metal realm, especially with huge strings.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I'd remove the spring altogether, and see if that gives you enough room to get it right.
If that doesn't work, there's something wrong.

 

[man-in-moon]

Thanks guys I’m still I’m still fighting with it. I’ve tried setting the action a few different ways and different neck reliefs. I’ll try removing the spring completely maybe that will help. It’s just strange to me how it was spot on with 9’s.

 

[Top-L]

do you have a pic of the bridge?

I had a guitar where there was a problem intonating the sixth string. When I thought I had it right, the saddle was farther forward than the adjacent... which isn't correct.

However, when I upgraded my tuner and my method of setting intonation, I got it right. I thought there was something weird with the gutiar, but it was my tools.

What tuner are you using?

 

[man-in-moon]

do you have a pic of the bridge?

I had a guitar where there was a problem intonating the sixth string. When I thought I had it right, the saddle was farther forward than the adjacent... which isn't correct.

However, when I upgraded my tuner and my method of setting intonation, I got it right. I thought there was something weird with the gutiar, but it was my tools.

What tuner are you using?

im using the tuner on my helix lt and a buddies boss tu-3.

 

[Top-L]

Oh crap, you might have a real problem.

That is with 10's? Your only hope is to file off the back of the low E saddle to get more rearward movement. Will also have to cut the spring.

Better solution, fill the trem screw holes and relocate it back 1/8". Verify that the trem still has full range of motion if you do this. You will need a drill press to do this properly.

It might also be possible to slot the saddle farther back so that the effective string length is longer. You might even try swapping saddles to see if it does.

If its a bolt on, someone might have relaxed the screws and forced the neck farther back in the pocket. Some people do this claiming better tone. There might be a little bit of forward movement of the neck if you loosen and retighten.

Did you buy this new? I would call that a defect.

BTW, the tuner in the Helix is notoriously not good. I have a Korg Pitchblack I use for intonation. The tuner in my GT100 is not accurate enough. The TU tuner should be accurate enough.

 

[PFDarkside]

You’ve got to be really close, right? If it’s just a cent or two, I agree with trying it without the spring. If it’s still a bit off, might have some other investigations.

 

[Top-L]

You’ve got to be really close, right? If it’s just a cent or two, I agree with trying it without the spring. If it’s still a bit off, might have some other investigations.

The corner of the saddle is hitting the bridge. Removing more spring won't help.

 

[ErikH]

PRS guitars are set up to work best with 9's. Don't ask me why. All I know is everyone I know personally that has one has 9-42 on it. A few local techs that are quite reputable and one even a PRS specialist has said the same thing. A buddy of mine went through this same thing and eventually had a tech set it up. Had to go with 9-42 to get it right.

 

[dave74]

Just file away the corner of the saddle that's hitting. Won't need much .

 

[Lewguitar]

PRS guitars are set up to work best with 9's. Don't ask me why. All I know is everyone I know personally that has one has 9-42 on it. A few local techs that are quite reputable and one even a PRS specialist has said the same thing. A buddy of mine went through this same thing and eventually had a tech set it up. Had to go with 9-42 to get it right.

Boy....that's pretty lame. I don't mean YOU, I mean PRS.

I'm surprised that PRS, with their penchant for quality, would mess up like that.

Tons of players use 10 - 46 strings.

I'd call PRS and see what they say.

If this is an ongoing issue I'm sure others have contacted them as well and they may have some suggestions.

 

[Lewguitar]

When I set the intonation on my guitars I FIRST hit a harmonic at the 12th fret and tune the string so the harmonic is in tune.

NEXT I press the string down at the 12th fret and make sure it's in tune as well.

If it isn't I adjust the string length and do it again.

In that order.

 

[Lewguitar]

I'm also wondering if the screw is hitting the inside of the circular space of the saddle and preventing the saddle from going back any further.

Although it does look like the left corner of the saddle is hitting the corner of bridge and preventing further travel as well, as others have noted.

Looks like the saddle is being forced to the right so that it's slightly crooked.

Another thing to consider is that if this is a bolt on neck the neck angle relative to the body might need to be increased.

If it was a Strat you could put a 1/2" shim cut from an old credit card or something in the neck pocket.

That would make the strings slightly longer and might give you the adjustment range you need.

I've done that to many Strats and Teles and the increased string angle usually makes them sound better too.

Maybe there's an adjustment on the back for that with PRS guitars...I forget.

None of my PRS guitars have a vibrato and it's been 20 years since I've owned a CE.

 

[Top-L]

When I set the intonation on my guitars I FIRST hit a harmonic at the 12th fret and tune the string so the harmonic is in tune.

NEXT I press the string down at the 12th fret and make sure it's in tune as well.

If it isn't I adjust the string length and do it again.

In that order.

The harmonic is potentially inaccurate. It is the middle of the whole string, but if the nut is not exactly at the right place (and it never is for all six strings), it makes the harmonic inaccurate.

Comparing fret to fret+12 is the best.

 

[Lewguitar]

The harmonic is potentially inaccurate. It is the middle of the whole string, but if the nut is not exactly at the right place (and it never is for all six strings), it makes the harmonic inaccurate.

Comparing fret to fret+12 is the best.

If the harmonic at the 12th fret is not the same note as the string fretted at the 12th fret it's going to sound out of tune to most players.

For me, they need to be the same note.

For you? Maybe not.

Everybody has their own way of doing things but I know what works for me.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

When I set the intonation on my guitars I FIRST hit a harmonic at the 12th fret and tune the string so the harmonic is in tune.

NEXT I press the string down at the 12th fret and make sure it's in tune as well.

If it isn't I adjust the string length and do it again.

In that order.

The above is the correct procedure.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/guitar-setup-part-3-intonation/

 

[ErikH]

Boy....that's pretty lame. I don't mean YOU, I mean PRS.

I'm surprised that PRS, with their penchant for quality, would mess up like that.

Tons of players use 10 - 46 strings.

I'd call PRS and see what they say.

If this is an ongoing issue I'm sure others have contacted them as well and they may have some suggestions.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty strange myself. My buddy's CE was from the early 2000's I think. He has since sold it.