Low E won’t intonate on prs trem

[man-in-moon]

I’m still tweaking everything trying to get it set right. I’ve talked to PRS a few times and they said putting 10’s on it should work pretty well. So I don’t see it being stuck with having to use 9’s on their guitars. If that was the case it seems like other strings would be giving me issues not just the low E.
If I was going up to 12’s or something like that I could see issues. I had to take a break from messing with it for awhile. Before i threw it against the wall lol. Sometimes it’s better to take a step back for awhile and unwind that start over.

 

[Lewguitar]

I’m still tweaking everything trying to get it set right. I’ve talked to PRS a few times and they said putting 10’s on it should work pretty well. So I don’t see it being stuck with having to use 9’s on their guitars. If that was the case it seems like other strings would be giving me issues not just the low E.
If I was going up to 12’s or something like that I could see issues. I had to take a break from messing with it for awhile. Before i threw it against the wall lol. Sometimes it’s better to take a step back for awhile and unwind that start over.

I wish I could look at that ax in person. I'm sure we'd be able to figure it out.

 

[idsnowdog]

It looks like in the left-hand corner the square saddle is running into the curved rim of the bridge plate. I wound try removing the spring and rounding that corner with a dremel to get more rearward travel.

 

[Top-L]

The above is the correct procedure.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...-3-intonation/

This is the correct procedure.

https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/intonation.htm

"Using my "normal" tuner [the type I figure most of you are using, so good for everybody] I can move a saddle almost a mm and the 12th fretted and harmonic will not change. Fret the 24th and move the saddle 1mm, big change. If I set it to the 24th and check the 12th everything is still dead on."

The sweetwater procedure is simplified for tan pantzers who just learned there is something called "intonation".

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

This is the correct procedure.

https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/intonation.htm

"Using my "normal" tuner [the type I figure most of you are using, so good for everybody] I can move a saddle almost a mm and the 12th fretted and harmonic will not change. Fret the 24th and move the saddle 1mm, big change. If I set it to the 24th and check the 12th everything is still dead on."

The sweetwater procedure is simplified for tan pantzers who just learned there is something called "intonation".

Many guitars don't have a 24th fret. The reference you cited explains what to do for those guitars. And guess what it says for non-24 fretters - It says to ensure the intonation at the 12th fret is good.

"On a 22 or 21 fret guitar I will set it at the last fret but always double check against the same note before the 12th AND the 12th fret fretted because of the inherent inconsistencies found in fretted instruments. If you have a 22 fretter check the 22nd against the 10th, then double check that the 12th is in tune."

But that is a side-point to why i posted what i did.
My point was that for the intonation method to be correct, one must 1st tune the open string to pitch (can be done via 12th fret harmonic), then *and only then* check what the intonation is further up the neck, i.e. fretted note at the 12th fret). "Intonation" is a reference to how well the guitar stays in tune as you go further up the neck -starting from the open string. Therefore one musr first ensure that the string is in tune as an open note before doing anything else.

 

[Top-L]

Many guitars don't have a 24th fret. The reference you cited explains what to do for those guitars. And guess what it says for non-24 fretters - It says to ensure the intonation at the 12th fret is good.

"On a 22 or 21 fret guitar I will set it at the last fret but always double check against the same note before the 12th AND the 12th fret fretted because of the inherent inconsistencies found in fretted instruments. If you have a 22 fretter check the 22nd against the 10th, then double check that the 12th is in tune."

But that is a side-point to why i posted what i did.
My point was that for the intonation method to be correct, one must 1st tune the open string to pitch (can be done via 12th fret harmonic), then *and only then* check what the intonation is further up the neck, i.e. fretted note at the 12th fret). "Intonation" is a reference to how well the guitar stays in tune as you go further up the neck -starting from the open string. Therefore one musr first ensure that the string is in tune as an open note before doing anything else.

Like a dog with a bone, you won't let go!

This was a learning opportunity that you have missed. Good night.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Like a dog with a bone, you won't let go!

This was a learning opportunity that you have missed. Good night.

haha. Sure.

 

[allstarrme]

What does your bridge height look like?
PRs usually wants them floating and parallel to the top. Also what do your pivot screws under the bridge looks like? If they are worn or the bridge is worn where they meet it can cause problems. Is the bridge in the grooves on the pivot screws?

I run 10’s on mine but my oldest one is a 10 with almost no wear. I have looked into the mannmade solid one piece bridge’s but if it’s not worn out it’s hardly worth the upgrade.

 

[man-in-moon]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I finally got it setup I probably went overboard. But I tore the whole thing apart removed all the hardware took the neck off and the tuners. I took the bridge out and took it apart. Everything but the electronics. I figure the guitar is 23 years old and no telling how it was taken care of or not taken care of. So I took my time and put everything back together made sure stuff was tightened up good.
Redid the bridge height and string height. Redid the truss rod and everything turned out ok the saddle is still pretty far back but not as bad as it was. So it’s not hitting the corner of the bridge. Now that I am done I can finally get to playing the thing and enjoying it. Once again thanks for all the info I really appreciate it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I finally got it setup I probably went overboard. But I tore the whole thing apart removed all the hardware took the neck off and the tuners. I took the bridge out and took it apart. Everything but the electronics. I figure the guitar is 23 years old and no telling how it was taken care of or not taken care of. So I took my time and put everything back together made sure stuff was tightened up good.
Redid the bridge height and string height. Redid the truss rod and everything turned out ok the saddle is still pretty far back but not as bad as it was. So it’s not hitting the corner of the bridge. Now that I am done I can finally get to playing the thing and enjoying it. Once again thanks for all the info I really appreciate it.

So what do you think the problem was?

 

[man-in-moon]

I’m not 100% sure I wonder if something could have been loose on the bridge. When I put it back together I did swap some of the saddles around as well. When I got it the previous owner had lowered the pivot screws all the down. I checked the knife edge on the bridge and the grooves on the screws they are fine and it stays in tune.
it seemed a lot easier to get the truss rod to adjust this fk
r as well. One this I did notice is before when I had the 6 screws lined up that bass side of the bridge would sit higher than the treble. If the treble side was at 1/16” the bass would sit a decent bit higher. After putting it back together it sits right at 1/16 all the way around with the screws level.
i believe I am going to have to replace the tuners I think some of the gears are worn. It keep time but when tuning its like they slip and will got real sharp or real flat just by tapping the button. Either they are a little worn or just very sensitive.
you can tell it wasn’t really taken care of

 

[JB_From_Hell]

I don’t know what’s up with the “PRS guitars should use 9s” thing. I used 10-52 on my two that had trems, zero issues.

 

[ErikH]

I don’t know what’s up with the “PRS guitars should use 9s” thing. I used 10-52 on my two that had trems, zero issues.

That's what my buddy was told with his CE22. I had one PRS and it was a SE with a wraparound. No issues with it. His had a trem though.

 

[Wattage]

Glad you got it working

A tip if you're trying to find out where some issues may lie. Instead of just open string/12th fret for intonation try 3rd/15, 5th/17th, you take the nut out of the equation.

 

[Mincer]

Glad you got it working

A tip if you're trying to find out where some issues may lie. Instead of just open string/12th fret for intonation try 3rd/15, 5th/17th, you take the nut out of the equation.

This is how I do it. Seems to work really well.

 

[Hank-]

The last time I had a problem like this with intonation, it turned out to be a bad string in a fresh set of strings. Put the old string back again & all was good.

 

[Artie]

Glad you got it working

A tip if you're trying to find out where some issues may lie. Instead of just open string/12th fret for intonation try 3rd/15, 5th/17th, you take the nut out of the equation.

Cool info. I never heard of that before. I'll give that a try. Thanks Wattage.

 

[Wattage]

It’s a weird thing but sometimes you find a fret isn’t exactly where it should be and you can have some screwy intonation spots

 

[Chad]

The last time I had a problem like this with intonation, it turned out to be a bad string in a fresh set of strings. Put the old string back again & all was good.

I visited this thread to post exactly this. Anytime I've had problems like the OP is describing, it usually happens with the lowest string and ends up being a bad string. Seems the thicker a string is, the more susceptible it is to being bad and having intonation issues. All that to say, trynew strings or swapping the lowest string and see if that fixes it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Wait a minute...is this an American PRS or an SE?