Low output pickups for metal?

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

That being the case, do hot pickups lose their compression characteristics when you roll off the volume on the guitar? Honest question, I don't trust my ears.

Depends on the pickup and the amp... if the amp has tons of headroom yes... if not no. And some pickup are just so loud its hard to roll off the volume enough to get past it.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I get a much, much tighter tone with medium output pickups (my max is the jb or alt 8 and even those get chopped up and hybridized with a fullshred!).It's tighter, better harmonics, much more dynamics, better response to my picking hand and if you get the right pickup combo (alt8/fullshred hybrid, screaming demon in the neck) you can still get those fluid leads.

So yeah, you sure can get metal tones out of it. No biggy. No need for superhigh output pickups.

 

[Artie]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

The hotter the pickup, the more it hits the amp and the amp starts clipping which compresses it.

This brings up the old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat"

Yes, and yes. I can run any pickup through my SFX-01 booster, then into my DBX-163 compressor. If I "dime" the booster, I can get "metal" with just about anything.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I play metal with the mini humbuckers in my firebird. If you sound bad, blame it on your hands!


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[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Are there many players who build a metal sound around low-output pickups, in their choice of associated equipment and how they play?

YES, and No !

Firstly, i do not think that they build their gear 'around' their pick ups. But they do prefer the lower end of the gain spectrum (pick-up wise) when it comes to their tone.

Secondly, please define 'Metal'.

Some folks will say X-band is metal, and others will say they are just Hard Rock.

Most (...but deff not all) Stoner, Sludge & Doom bands prefer low-to-medium out put pick ups. Think Acid King, Clutch, Alabama Thunder Pvssy, Sasquatch (<---love this band), Horn Of The Rhino and, and, and (...ermmmm, on 2nd thought, i LOVE all these bands)

And all above mentioned bands do fall under a sub-category of the big Metal-umbrella

 

[CTN]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

yeah that's the other thing... when people say metal, what do they mean?

When I say metal, i mean metallica, megadeth, testament, slayer, death, iced earth, cannibal corpse, carcass, arch enemy, in flames, soilwork, emperor, dimmu borgir, exhumed, dying fetus, etc..

ie thrash, death, power, black, gore, grind, and other modern forms of metal from the 80s onwards. Why specifically the 80s? Because everything previous to the 80s can be adequately covered by pickups meant for classic rock and hard rock. For actual aggressive (tonally) styles of metal, it's a slightly different ball game. I consider the bulk of stoner, sludge and doom to fall tonally in under the same umbrella as hard rock/classic rock, simply because the technical demands of the genre require quite a different approach to pickups than the metal genres i mentioned.

 

[Gunner4Life]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

yeah that's the other thing... when people say metal, what do they mean?

When I say metal, i mean metallica, megadeth, testament, slayer, death, iced earth, cannibal corpse, carcass, arch enemy, in flames, soilwork, emperor, dimmu borgir, exhumed, dying fetus, etc..

ie thrash, death, power, black, gore, grind, and other modern forms of metal from the 80s onwards. Why specifically the 80s? Because everything previous to the 80s can be adequately covered by pickups meant for classic rock and hard rock. For actual aggressive (tonally) styles of metal, it's a slightly different ball game. I consider the bulk of stoner, sludge and doom to fall tonally in under the same umbrella as hard rock/classic rock, simply because the technical demands of the genre require quite a different approach to pickups than the metal genres i mentioned.

I get by fine with the PATB-3 through the 5150iii's high gain channel, for Metallica, Megadeth Slayer, and Testament, don't really listen to the other bands mentioned, the heaviest thing I listen to is probably Pantera, and I don't think my setup could pull off Dimebag's sound, or more extreme metal... without maybe a compression pedal?

I don't think the guitar can be discounted in all this. I have the PATB-3 in both a new Jackson DK2 with an Original Floyd, and a new Ibanez RG920 with a Edge Zero 2, with the Jackson having a much warmer sound, much more open, and the Ibanez sounding more compressed, and tighter.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Yes. I play heavy rock, and I've used the Jazz Model set for years in a Les Paul.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I've done this experiment recently myself and there is no easy answer. Lower output pups can do metal just fine with the right amp. They will however react differently to higher amounts of gain.

What this discussion is really about are trade offs. Higher output pick ups (especially those with ceramic magnets) tend to stay tighter and more compressed under higher amounts of gain. Depending on the pick up they can also be more aggressive sounding. The trade-off is that you will lose some (or a lot, depending on the pick up) of the openness and dynamics of a lower output pup. It may also not be as sweet sounding or chimey and your cleans will be more compressed. Drier sounding is the word. In some instances, the pick up might be too compressed or too tight.

With a lower output pup, the trade off is that under higher gain they tend to get a bit loose and a bit muddy. You may or may not (depending on the wind and magnet) get tight palm mutes out of them too. Again, depending on the wind and magnet, they may or may not cut through the mix with solos or scream for highs. (If that's what you want) You will retain the openness and dynamics of the lower output pup. They will usually give you great, chimey cleans and be very responsive to pick attack. The pick up will, in general, be a bit sweeter sounding.

Note that I'm trying not to make judgmental statements here. The qualities that I'm mentioning may or may not be desireable to you based on what you want to do and how you want to sound. (And the sound in your head) Many of these qualities can be mitigated/improved, etc. by effects too.

Sorry if you wanted a fast or easy answer, there just isn't one!

Jeff

 

[zamdrang]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

In my expierence low output pickups can be dialed in for metal easily in your bed room (and im talking metal not guns and roses hard rock) But to get them to sit in a band mix is very hard.

I agree with this, with the caveat to the OP that your ear is telling you your on to something and to run with it and see where it takes you. My first two good guitars were single coil, a Gibson Marauder and a Standard Strat, which was ironic because i've always loved metal....but I was a kid and they were all I had so I had to adapt. I could get a great chunky metal palm muted rhythm sound and singing lead tone sound by rolling off the tone. This was around '85 ...so consider "metal", of the day. But I learned a lot of Slayer, Anthrax, Metallica type stuff, and played those guitars that way for years. I would get compliments and questions all the time about how I got my tone.

I always felt like I had stumbled onto something unique and wondered why I never saw any of my guitar heroes with such a setup.... until I eventually tried those same guitars in a band situation....they pretty much fell on their face and it wound up being far easier to just use a humbucker equipped guitar then try to dial that sound into the mix.

So as others have said consider what your using it for. But what I hear you saying is that there is something about the single coils you like, maybe a low power humbucker will fill in the things you don't. You have a found a sound/tone/feel that YOU like...that is huge. I say go for it and post your results!!

 

[soulforger]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Yngwie has always had a killer metal tone with his stacked single coils, heavy as hell, and has no problem cutting through a mix. However, he uses non-master volume Marshalls cranked to the nuts, at that point it's not about you cutting through the rest of the band mix so much as it's about the band cutting through the guitar, hehe! Also, Dave Murray and Janick Gers both use JB Jrs in their Strats and get some of the best metal tones ever, though, the JB Jr is not really low output...it will save you from routing or (if the guitar is already routed for a HB), getting a new pickguard.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Yngwie has always had a killer metal tone with his stacked single coils, heavy as hell, and has no problem cutting through a mix. However, he uses non-master volume Marshalls cranked to the nuts, at that point it's not about you cutting through the rest of the band mix so much as it's about the band cutting through the guitar, hehe! Also, Dave Murray and Janick Gers both use JB Jrs in their Strats and get some of the best metal tones ever, though, the JB Jr is not really low output...it will save you from routing or (if the guitar is already routed for a HB), getting a new pickguard.

True, Yngwie (especially during his DiMarzio days) had a goddamn heavy tone and that came mostly from his amp and picking, rather than his pickups. Dave Murray uses 3 hot rails, though, and that's in the stupid-high output territory.

 

[soulforger]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

My mistake, now that you mention it I do remember the hot rails in Davey's Strat...